So.. who's here who's actually going professional?

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#21

Well, I’m thinking of running an August promo (20% off) to speed up treacly slow holiday sales so maybe you want to wait another couple of days anyway :stuck_out_tongue: And yeah, only buy it if you actually like it, too!

Seriously though, the fact that it’s Java hasn’t got anything to do with the sales factor at all, nor has it any bearing on anyone else decided to go indie. Alban seems to be worrying that it’ll be hard to convince people about a game written in Java - but of course, if it’s already written, no-one’s going to care 2 monkey’s poos what it’s written in, only that it works.

Cas :slight_smile:

#22

Cas, as soon as the OS X version is up, I’ll buy two. My wife would LOVE this game but she owns an iMac. And I’d love to put it on my powerbook.

#23

I would have bought AF by now… but my home desktop Windows box has been too unreliable in the graphics department… it usually takes 3 or 4 reboots before I can get into Quake without the graphics switch and OpenGL usage locking up the machine… man I hate PCs… it’s a hardware problem though… so I can’t blame M$ for this one.

When the Mac port is available I might get it for my laptop… but I have a feeling it will be impossible to play with a track pad :slight_smile: and I only have a mouse hooked up while I’m at work… actually I should just replace that crappy PC. One of these days.

#24

I should mention that I don’t mind using “because it’s Java” as a bit of extra influence to buy the game. I bought Roboforge partially because I wanted to show people that Java games worked… and I know that having some $ale$ number$ will help less technical folks in the industry understand that Java is a viable gaming platform… so if I can artificially give Java gaming a little boost in the direction I know it is going anyway, I can hopefully help speed up the acceptance process. The games will easily stand on their own when the industry is over the “yuk java is for making crappy applets” stigma. But when I see a decent game made from Java I might be more likely to buy it in the near future, simply to prove a point… the game would still have to be good of course… because I don’t want to promote bad Java games that would have the opposite effect and we have enough of that on the web already.

#25

[quote]Wouldn’t that be slightly patronising? Buying it because we know its Java, or because we know who wrote it? Wouldn’t that be a bit of an insult, and shouldn’t we simply be buying it cause its a great game to our tastes?
[/quote]
Yes and no. I still feel if everyone here wants Java to succeed in games part of that manifests itself through supporting good Java games. Which is of course what AF is. But supporting it not only because it’s good, but also because it is written in Java. That’s an important point not to be lost.

[quote]What you should be saying is:

“You guys should really check this game out, its brilliant, and you are going to be throwing your money as Cas to get a copy of the full thing!”
[/quote]
I don’t need to now;) You said it better than I.

Bill

#26

[quote]Cas, as soon as the OS X version is up, I’ll buy two.
[/quote]
This is actually indicitive of the market right now. People are buying Macs, then want software for them. Since the market for OS X software is pretty small yet, any entry is bound to make an impression. A very large chunk of DataDino users are on Mac OS X. They choose it not only because it does what they want, but also because it nicely fits in with all their other Mac applications. Mac users could care less if it’s Java or not.

If it looks like a Mac app, it acts like a Mac app, and it tastes like a Mac app (hey, lickable interfaces!), then it must be a Mac app! :slight_smile:

#27

[quote]I just wondered who in here is actually developing a Java game professionally right now (and I mean professional in the strictest sense that making Java games is your actual profession). Right about now I feel strangely alone. Will anyone else make the leap?
[/quote]
I’m doing one under contract to an IP owner. They have a game that isn’t computer-based, and I’m making it into an MMOG for them. The arrangements are a bit complicated for financial, tax, and legal reasons (who owns what at the end of the day, who has what responsabilities), but essentially java game-development is currently my main source of income. Interestingly, I’ll have part ownership if we launch successfully, rather than an ongoing contract. So I’ll be in a similar position to you - everything dependent on sales.

Unfortunately, since it’s an MMOG, I daren’t say much until we get to the end of the closed beta, and I know that it works. Suffice it to say that it’s about as far from the RPG market as you could possibly be.

#28

In three years, when I graduate, I hope that there’s space for professional java game development. And I love AlienFlux. I’ll be getting it as soon as I get my new computer. My laptop only has an 8MB GC and the demo runs slowly on it, with all the cool little options turned off. Yes, S3 make a crappy graphics card.

#29

[quote]In three years, when I graduate, I hope that there’s space for professional java game development.
[/quote]
I wouldn’t expect much that soon. Here in the UK the specialise games-industry recruitment agencies normally won’t even put developers with java skills on their books, let alone put them forward for interviews.

…unless the individual is willing to have references to “java” removed from their CV, and has C++ instead.

Or they’re only looking at new-graduate positions. Basically, java = no experience at all. Even when their customers tell them they specifically need java developers, they have an ingrained anti-java slant. Whether this is because of their own biases, or because so few of their customers will accept it, I have no idea.

Actually, it may even have something to do with some of their customers getting burnt with so-called “java developers” who were incompetent at any language, and the company then told the agency “no more java developers, even if they claim they can learn C++ quickly”.

Shrug. I know plenty of people who got jobs with games companies through java skill and experience, but the agencies wouldn’t touch them. I know plenty who’ve been refused job interviews until they replaced java with something else. If you go to companies directly they may recognise the value of java.

#30

Well, do you think any of the following would work instead? :wink:

common lisp
ada
assembly (can’t remember exactly which version - but they are all almost the same anyway…)
python

I guess lisp dialect programmers are quite wanted in the gaming area because of the high AI/discrete mathematics use/expertise?
(i.e. c,c++ and java are not mentioned)

#31

I wouldn’t be surprised to hear lisp and python have been used a bit for scripting. Hell, Sierra’s line of Quest games were entirely written in their own variant of Lisp (and ran in virtual machines too, very cool :slight_smile: ) Now Ada on the other hand…

#32

What! You’re showing disrespect to the holy grail of programming languages ADA?! :wink:

Well, the above was almost the response we usually got from our Ada teacher/professor when we complained about the bad error reporting of our ada IDE and then followed up with the usual uninformed :frowning: complain about the compiler being to picky ;D

#33

[quote]Well, do you think any of the following would work instead? :wink:

common lisp
ada
assembly (can’t remember exactly which version - but they are all almost the same anyway…)
python

I guess lisp dialect programmers are quite wanted in the gaming area because of the high AI/discrete mathematics use/expertise?
(i.e. c,c++ and java are not mentioned)
[/quote]
As my comments re: Java and Agencies show, sensible deductions like that can’t be relied upon here :).

I dropped in on a Python roundtable at the GDC this year, and it was getting some pretty hot evangelising from those present (and the room was pretty full too). It keeps coming up again and again in trade press and postmortems, and IIRC Larry Mellon mentioned “Python ROCKS!” in one of his GDC-lectures on the sims online…so I reckon it’s pretty widely held in high-regard. Note, however, that I focus on MMOG stuff, where Python has some strong advantages, and most of the places I’ve heard of it being used (TSO, UO, etc) are MMOGs. YMMV for standard games dev.

Assembly used to go down very well, supposedly assembly programmers are trusted to be coding-geniuses (who else could put up with the pain?), but I doubt it’s so strong right now - assembly programming is very much a useless skill right now, unless you’re doing really cutting edge graphics stuff, hardware-interfacing, or some forms of mobile. But even the mobile gaming stuff doesn’t need assembly any more - it’s pretty much a useless language (too bug-prone, too inefficient and a waste of programmer-time).

I’ve known studios mention LISP when looking for AI programmers, but always in the same breath as “PhD in AI research” and IIRC only ever from the same companies that take a sensible view of things like Java (although, as I think I said, that’s quite a large group).

But hey, I’m not an HR person, so YMMV an awful long way…

#34

Cas,

Planning on going professional, hopefully soon. No promises (like I could promise that I’d be successful, yeah… right! I can, however, hope and intend to do so. :slight_smile: )

More details when I can post them up. Must code now…

#35

[quote]Omg, the Daggerfall people looked at Wurm? :o

faints
[/quote]
I have many good friends who work for a variety of developers and publishers. I’ll be paying a visit to a couple of buds who work for Mythic next month when I do my DC area visit and I’ll show them Wurm Online as well.

I’ve actually touched base with a couple of people on Alien Flux as well to determine if that’s a genre that certain publishers would be interested in. I don’t know what Sun is doing in this regard, but I intend to work every connection that I have so that one or two of these projects get some money and become large enough to actually do this commercially fulltime with an employed staff that is focussed on the matter.

I’ll say again, if Sun and the Java Gaming Group are not trying to give away JOGL, J2ME, a custom console JVM for PSP and PS3 - I’m not sure what their business plan looks like :slight_smile: That’s a win-win for everyone in this forum and a huge chunk of change for Sun.

#36

[quote]I wouldn’t expect much that soon. Here in the UK the specialise games-industry recruitment agencies normally won’t even put developers with java skills on their books, let alone put them forward for interviews.
[/quote]
I hate recruitment agencies so much! The company I work for has never used them and we’ve done pretty well out of that.

I’m a happy amateur and probably I’ll stay that way forever, maybe not even have anything to show for my efforts if I don’t start sitting down and doing something, but I dream as good as anyone…

#37

[quote]Well, do you think any of the following would work instead? :wink:
(…)
assembly (can’t remember exactly which version - but they are all almost the same anyway…)
[/quote]
Pretty good joke. :slight_smile:

Remembers me to an application somebody sent to the company where I worked at. There we read the following:

Programming languages experiences:
° C++
° Java
° HTML
<<

Rotfl.

#38

Hehe :slight_smile:
I’m still waiting for my new credit card so I can order my copy (things got horribly delayed here).
But I think you’re right. Everybody actively using lwjgl should fork out a measly 20 euro’s, even if you don’t like the game.

#39

What’s a euro? Can you eat it? :stuck_out_tongue: I don’t want to pay for my copies in funny money, Cas will be gettin’ US Dollars and he’ll LIKE IT! :slight_smile:

#40

Well, I’d prefer to eat my Euros than eat my GREENS… ;D

Funny money indeed! At least Both Euro and Sterling notes look different from one another! :stuck_out_tongue: