Preferred OS?

Miscellaneous Topics
#202

Actually Windows 7 setup considers partition management as an advanced task so you need to click the Drive options (advanced) link to make those options available. Apparently.

@ontaiwolf - your answers just completely cement my position on the matter but yet you can’t still can’t see it :confused: Where there is choice, there is confusion, there is incompatibility, there is more learning and unlearning, there is more support, there is no chance my mother will ever get to grips with it, and I can’t be bothered, either. As @OrangyTang said back there … when the choice is Windows, Mac OS, or Linux, then it’ll all work out for your favourite flavour of OS. While it’s Windows, Mac OS, Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, Arch Linux, Debian, Slackware etc. compounded by at least two desktop window managers, at least two different package managers, and so on: no chance.

You are absolutely mistaken as to why users don’t want to change OSes. It is not because they “don’t know how to” - that is a patronising engineer’s world view. It is because they do not need to. Windows is excellent, when all’s said and done, and so is Mac OS. Doesn’t stop me disliking them both for various reasons of course. But then every motorbike I’ve ever owned has some sort of flaw with it that you just have to ride around.

Cas :slight_smile:

#203

Same for Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora etc.

No, I think that you just don’t understand Linux. Linux is not an OS and there is no company “Linux” which develops the Linux OS. Linux is an open source kernel developed by many companies (even by Microsoft). On the other side there are Linux distributions which use the kernel. They are the actual OSs. Some of them are made by companies like RedHat or Canonical and others by community like Debian or Arch. The user doesn’t need to know all the distributions, he can just choose the best for him. Like you can go to a store and choose the shoes you like. Maybe it’s confusing for you because you probably haven’t tried Linux for at least two days yet.

Linux is open source, if you don’t like something you can change it. Or just choose the best. That’s the reason why are there so many of them. I’m sure that if Linux would be more successful you would see more different distributions.

You can see all the distributions as disconnected OSs (so you shouldn’t see Linux as an OS but Ubuntu, Mint, Debian etc) who want peaces of the market like Windows or Mac OS. To get successful they don’t need to work together to create a “Superlinux”, they have to sell their OS on good hardware as I or Linus Torvalds said. And this is really difficult. Of course there are some other reasons like the small choice of professional software like Photoshop or games, but this is not really important, most of the users don’t buy Photoshop for 1000€ and don’t play Battlefield 3.

Sure you can also say that they don’t need to change it. I listed only few examples. It doesn’t really matter. If a good Linux distro would be preinstalled on good hardware most of users would use it till the last day of this hardware. Just like the Apple buyers use Mac OS although there is no Battlefield 3 for it.

#204

Work with linux, play with windows and use the mac as an earring.

#205

You’re still completely, totally missing the point of where I’m coming from. And most other people who try it.

Of course I understand Linux. “Do you know who I am?” etc. etc. I’m old, I’ve been doing this crap for over thirty years, I administer Linux servers, I’ve been testing Linux on and off for the last decade. I also have the dubious privilege of releasing software that got installed on about 50,000 Linux desktops and then having to support it - what a nightmare is all I can say. Hundreds and hundreds of support requests with all sorts of boggling problems versus, er, say, none for Mac OS. But never mind that.

You are again asking me to choose, or my mum, or at least some hypothetical user, which distribution of the OS to use. And of course, to the layman, it’s “er, Linux?” To me, who knows a lot of stuff about a lot of things, I am only too painfully aware that there are least 5 distributions on my shortlist to attempt to try but which one? It’s not like it’s a trivial thing to test them all out. How’s my mum going to choose? She’s not! The choice is conveniently made for her. The only thing she currently has to choose is whether to buy a PC or a Mac. That’s easy. Either of them are pretty trivial to use, mostly.

In order to “win” you need to sell Linux. What’s the sizzle, for the ordinary layman?

Cas :slight_smile:

#206

I love Linus Torvalds. “I have an ego the size of a small planet.” “Nobody actually creates perfect code the first time around, except me. But there’s only one of me.”
He is like the Tony Stark of Computer Science.

Well just give me the Adobe Suite on Linux and I’m fine…

#207

You can’t blame linux for poor hardware support, it’s the manufacturer’s fault. Windows and Mac get cocky because all supports that they give to it.

#208

I can’t even keep up with this thread anymore. Seems like Cas saying doesn’t like something and a lot of other people telling him he’s wrong.

So basically it’s like 50% of the threads on JGO. :clue:

#209

Yes we can. It’s a two-way street. Linux is has not gotten the attention for drivers to be had because their user base isn’t in Linux. How do you think OSX moved from PowerPC to Intel? They worked with Intel to get the drivers working (both cpu and gpu). Linux has to work with them. Don’t just blame manufacturers.

Windows and Mac don’t just go cocky. They actually go do the work.

#210

Desktop Linux is not for the ordinary layman. It’s a tool for the highly skilled elite.

It probably won’t get huge market share. This isn’t a bad thing.

A lot of the best stuff doesn’t win over the unwashed masses. For example, LaTeX is dramatically better than Word for technical users, but it will never become more than a niche product.

#211

Who do we call “linux”? Linus alone or all distro makers? Linux is owned and created by thousand people, even they’re anon. How can I make a distro now and tell Asus work together to create HotKey driver.

#212

I think it could. But as long as Windows comes with almost every PC or notebook Linux won’t get significant market share. If it would come, let’s say with 20% of the sold PCs, Linux could get up to 10% of the market share in few years which will be enough for better hardware and software support (e.g. more and better drivers, more software) and after that it could come even more often with sold PCs. There are only few now who are willing to look for another OS, download an ISO, burn it or put it on the USB, test it and then to install and configure it. Although the hardest part comes right after, to get used to the new OS. 1-2% of market share is not surprising because of that. It’s like standing on a street and to count people, every 50th to 100th passing is a Linux user. This is actually a big achievement and not a sign for a bad OS.

[quote=“gene9,post:210,topic:39083”]
Yep, I also don’t care about huge market share but 10% instead of 1-2% would be nice just to get a better hardware and software support.

#213

That’s the issue. No one is taking ownership or responsibility. Linux is all for too many separate entities - I make my own distros, I make my own Window systems. The lack of unity cough cough excuse me is killing it.

#214

Nah, the ownership and responsibility are taken by the companies behind Linux distributions. Like RedHat has taken taken ownership and responsibility for RedHat Enterprise and makes a lot of money with it. Same for Canonical and Ubuntu but with no money making. :smiley: Or Novell and Suse etc. These companies need to work to promote their OS. Not Linux. Linux is a piece of software, a kernel, nothing more…

#215

And that’s the major Linux problem. There isn’t one Linux.

#216

Just unsubscribe from the thread if it’s wearing you down :slight_smile: I’m really enjoying it though - we’ve not had one of these for years!

It is a very exciting time for Linux. If I could put my prediction hat on, I think what is going to happen is that one version of Linux is going to adjust in just the right direction and do something similar to what Mac OS has done - that is, hide Linux effectively underneath a remarkably good user interface and standardise on a bunch of software, probably proprietry (though not necessarily closed source). At that point someone is going to realise that the OS needs some killer apps and whoever is backing the system will throw some big money at a few major power applications needed by prosumers - I’m looking at Adobe and Autodesk and possibly Sony here. This will probably need to be backed by a concerted branding effort, possibly also by bespoke hardware. In other words - just like Apple. It’s only got to gain a 1% market share to be pretty massive; I recall Apple having a mere 3% or so about a decade ago before they hit upon the magic formula.

As for drivers… actually driver support in Linux is reasonably comprehensive now, just fairly badly implemented in most cases. It’s not nearly so simple as drivers in Windows. Again something fixable by said major Linux distribution mindset-change. Nvidia likely to remain a problem. I love the way Nvidia make brilliant drivers but are pains to work with and ATI are all super open and awesome and can’t write drivers for shit :slight_smile:

Who wants to guess who the major backers are going to be? My money’s on Canonical as an outside chance but actually I suspect it’ll be Google who take the plunge.

Cas :slight_smile:

#217

Great, more chances for Google to siphon of my personal information :smiley:

#218

Great, this thread is still alive - can’t beat a good argy-bargy. ;D

In a way you could say Google has already done that with Android … er, and ChromeBook :persecutioncomplex:

Personally, I think it’s more likely Canonical than Google that will make it on the desktop at the moment. Ubuntu will ship on ~5% of new desktop PCs this year. What’s more interesting is looking at where that focus is, with huge branded efforts in Dell and other shops across China and India, the partnership with Vodafone in South Africa, etc.

As I said above, I think the cost of switching from one OS to another is actually more than learning from scratch sometimes. Targeting emerging markets and first time OS users is a good strategy.

Linux (overall) is already well over 1%. Personally, I think more than that is required.

I remember Microsoft being forced to buy shares in Apple to stop their only competitor from going under!

Interestingly, Nvidia lost a Chinese contract worth at least a quarter of a billion dollars recently due to the lack of an open-source driver. Be interesting to see if their perspective changes if it keeps hitting their bottom line.

Oh, and in relation to your support comment earlier, why are you not just choosing to support one Linux flavour (like Ubuntu)? Works for much bigger companies than you are!

#219

Ubuntu might be shipping on a lot of machines but the vast majority of those machines are ending up in China and possibly India. In the West I should think that general home penetration remains starkly under 1%. I don’t know, outside of internet forums, a single person who uses Linux at home; granted that I am a statistical sample of one but the couple of hundred people I am acquainted with on Facebook represent a more realistic spread. What’s more, none of them have plans to ever switch to Linux, to the best of my knowledge.

I do hope Nvidia change their attitude to open source now there’s a massive financial carrot for them.

Cas :slight_smile:

#220

That’s not how the world works though is it. Especially for small companies.

Cas :slight_smile:

#221

You said what I was going to say. This person expects manufacturers, e.g. amd and nvidia to be testing the so many different flavours of Linux, with different Windowing systems and this and that instead of just 1. Even if Linux does get to 10% usage, each distro might have <1% - so you expect manufacturers to be worrying about 1% and not say 30%.