JGO coinage tally

General Discussions
#1

Back in the day, late 2009 to be exact, when I took over JGO from ChrisM in a poker game, I hosted JGO on a crappy little VPS that would seize operation upon sneezage. A lot has happened since then, including a pair of naughty hacks, but JGO now runs happily on the smallest Linode node money can buy, acompanied by their excellent backup service.

Back in early 2010 when I added AdSense, everything seemed to go well. Within three months I reached the payout threshold of about $100, and I was a happy overlord. Unfortunately, in spring 2010 some guy from Belgium (according to his IP) clicked ~20 times on the same ad. I reported this activity to Google, with the offending IP address, and they quickly responded by suspending my AdSense account, indefinitely… in case you’re wondering, yes, it is still banned and yes, I contested their decision to no avail.

Quite a while later, somewhere around the summer of 2011, I added ads from Project Wonderful to JGO, hoping to at least cover my hosting bills. Well, that didn’t happen, as Project Wonderful is an ad auction site that simply doesn’t have the big shot advertisers and sheer volume that AdSense has. On the best days, I earn $0.50, but on average I earn about $5-8 / month through ads.

Last weekend, I decided to make a balance of the expenses and income of JGO. The result was rather sobering, but not completely unexpected. Anyway, you can take a peek at it here:
http://www.java-gaming.org/content/finance (updated automatically each month)

Don’t worry, I’m not desperate for money. The future of JGO is as sound as my mental state :slight_smile:

There will however be an increased focus on finding avenues to bring in money to cover the hosting bills. There won’t be javascript bitcoin miners (do these even exist!?), nor flashy-ads, pop-ups or pop-unders, nor other kinds of ads that will make your eyes bleed. There also won’t be premium accounts, as I think it’s wrong to squeeze money out of the very community that creates the site in the first place - without you guys JGO would be an empty shell. Last but not least, there won’t be sponsored posts, nor tracking cookies, because I believe more in integrity, than in a positive balance. There will, however, be an increase in ways to plug the money drain, so to speak.

Upcoming changes will be in exposure campaigns, more specifically like ye ol’ web-rings, where some value can be monetized, without selling out, and without interfering with the user experience at any level. I realize the above is rather vague, but that goes with the territory. It may feel a bit like hearing: ‘less sugar, same taste!’, which tends to be an unnerving statement, but that’s better than finding out by yourself, and losing trust in whoever didn’t tell you ahead of time.
Just like with (candy recipe) changes, you trust some company not to screw you over, and I hope you have the same trust in me.

So consider yourself thoroughly informed, albeit… with minimal information. :emo:

As always, I’m open to suggestions and willing to discuss alternate ways to come up with enough money to break even. I won’t even escort you to the padded room for calling me a money grabbing overlord, honestly.

#2

I have a suggestion. This isn’t an original idea of mine, it’s something I saw done at another website I regularly visit. It’s not exactly a premium account although some might call it as such.

Basically it’s a completely optional subscription based “plus” account for lack of a better term that I can think of. Well, not exactly subscription based. At the most basic level you pay, say, 3€ a month and get some sort special “+” sign in your signature. It’s similar to Reddit Gold I suppose. Here’s the link to the original system that I’m referring from http://www.teamliquid.net/plus/

Perhaps not to replace whatever you have planned but used in tandem so that those who choose to could op-out of these, well, whatever wonderful things you may have planned. I’m already using adBlock so this could be another way of showing support without gouging your eyes out without adBlock. I mean, it’s like treating JGO to a coffee once every month. But most importantly, getting that delicious plus sign in your signature will obviously be the main attraction.

2cents

#3

Slap Google on the wrist and tell them off.
Maybe you could get the $1112 back in another poker game…?

On a more serious note, how about allowing users to get their game advertised on JGO. More specifically, adding a banner at the bottom (or somewhere else) and allowing users to “bid” to get their game advertised there for a month. It probably won’t make too much, but it could make something.

#4

Well, you can already do exactly that through Project Wonderful.
http://www.java-gaming.org/content/ads

A few PMs were sent back and forth to people that wanted to plug their game for a few bucks, but in the end nobody did actually send money to my paypal account, and nobody used Project Wonderful as an intermediary, so I guess there is nobody here willing to invest in their games, except Puppygames, ofcourse.

#5

What about (also) using flattr as a means for bringing in some extra cash?

#6

I’d pay 3 bucks a month to get a “Supporter of JGO” title :slight_smile: Get another 9 guys like that and we’re running even :wink:

Mike

#7

I really prefer to let everybody in the community use 100% of the ‘service’ for free. I also value the concept of everybody being equal. Using a monetary based way to create inequality among members is in my opinion the wrong way to go. It’s unavoidable to treat people differently once they gave you money. I’d prefer to stay on the impartial side, if that is at all possible. Maybe i’ll eat these words some day, though.

If Notch’s old tumblr account, with millions of daily hits, with flttr couldn’t bring in any money, JGO doesn’t stand a chance. Flttr is a nice concept, but it lacks the backing of the masses.

#8

Well, except that there are these pesky (Paypal) fees (0.45 EUR for a 3.00 EUR txn) and tax.

In the end it’s not so hard to break even on a monthly basis, if you get a few members to pay every month, but to break-even long term is another matter. :emo:

#9

I’m not keen on the idea of subscriptions. I like more tight control of my money. Also don’t forget that some users of this forum may not be in a position to enter into a subscription (i.e. perhaps users don’t have their own credit card or source of finance etc.).

I do however like the idea of being able to provide a lump-sum donation. Perhaps you could provide us the option to do so? I’ve seen it done easily with PayPal on other sites & servers. I’d happily donate when I can, and I’m sure others would too. I don’t think there necessarily needs to be any reward; although perhaps this would provide some incentive for more people to donate. It’s a start anyway, and I don’t think you have anything to lose by doing so?

#10

Whether it’s subscriptions or donations, I’m against feeding off the community, on this one. Given the size of this community (it’s rather small) people would have to pay/donate rather much or often to make it amount to anything.

Meanwhile there are other, imho, better ways to finance the hosting costs.

#11

I don’t think there are many options other than allowing the community to donate in one way or another. You wouldn’t really be feeding off the community, since it’d be optional, however I think that giving someone who donates a displayable status isn’t a good idea, for several reasons.

You should at least try it out; you’d probably get more donations than you think. After all, the community is really helpful, and some users may want to contribute to the hosting costs.

#12

^ What Troubleshoots said. I don’t think anyone would consider it ‘feeding off the community’. I just think that you should at least give us the option of doing so. Obviously you couldn’t rely on it as the sole source of funding, so you’d still have to pursue other options. But it may supplement these ‘other options’.

#13

Let’s be realistic here. What do people who live off of ads sell? Think about youtube channels for instance. What do these channels sell to in order to get ad revenue from their videos? They sell their audience. This is true for all ads. You are selling the audience/visitors. In that sense, you’re already feeding off of the community in a more straightforward way. You are selling us to the ads. This sounds crude but it’s been the reality of marketing since day 1. It’s nothing new.

The incredibly voluptuous incentive of “plus” icons in the signature was a joke by the way, it doesn’t have to be visible at all. I just thought their video of it was pretty funny: http://www.youtube.com/embed/NAQ-dJAbPAc.

But I digress. In any case. Thinking you’re feeding off of the community is simply flawed logic imo since that’s already happening through ads. Quite unsuccessfully too it seems.

#14

As if I don’t realize I’m selling your brain-time to ad-publishers.
What I obviously meant was taking your money directly.

The difference is that people who click ads are mainly random visitors, that come in through google, and that people who’d donate would be the more valuable members.

It’s not comparable, not even close.

#15

Sure. But is there really that much of a difference between the two?

There may be better, more indirect ways. Moreover my suggestion my not work at all. I’m just saying some people wouldn’t mind it being an option in order to not see ads.

[edit] That may be, but then again - the ones exposed the most are the “more valuable” members as well, as you put it.

#16

Regular members don’t even notice the sidebar, while they would certainly notice themselves giving away money for nothing in return. So again, asking for money directly is ‘way more’ feeding off the community than selling brain-time of mostly non-members.

Anyway, I’d like to hear suggestions that doesn’t involve the community paying me, as that has quite a few downsides, and would barely bring in any money, I suspect.

If you want to give money, please plug your game through Project Wonderful, and you’ll get your ad showcased for at least a week at current auction rates. :point:

#17

Mike

#18

Put it to a poll and you will be able to see what the community thinks. The community is receiving a service - it’s only fair on your behalf that we get the option to give something in return.

As for suggestions that don’t involve donations from the community (and regular unregistered visitors I suspect), I don’t think there are any options other than advertisement. You could add more advertisements, or find a different ad company which pays more.

#19

See my earlier reply:

Or… is giving money and getting something in return for it, not as sexy? :slight_smile:

#20

Maybe a little bar somewhere on the site doing the same like PW but reserved for projects from this forum? …