app store, rooting ? We are talking about the PS4 here
Conversation drifted to Android I’m afraid. As for PS4, I’m sure Sony will promise the moon and the sun and the stars and deliver us a console locked down tighter than Superman’s bunghole.
I was just confused - I mean the special thing here is x86 - ARM VM is a different story altogether
Sony is certainly not known for being pro-indie and open… lets hope D:
[i]We believe in smaller developers. They are very creative and they go out of the norm to do something really amazing. So we really want to make it easier for them to come to our platform and publish. And we know there are many things we can do, in talking with these guys and asking what they want us to do. And one effort we’ve been doing in that context is the PS Mobile platform. That doesn’t even require the purchase of a dev kit. It’s totally software driven, and they can develop games… on PC, for example. And once you decide to publish it, you want to test it on the final hardware, but you don’t have to acquire a pricey dev kit.
The approach to PS4 we’re internally working on is, I hope to see somewhere in-between the current model that we have on PS3 and the PS Mobile totally software-driven model. We could continue and go and expand the PS Mobile approach, but the beauty of developing games on console is we allow the developers to go really deep into the hardware, and to unlock the potential. And so in order for us to do that, the developer has to have the dev kit to work on. So at least initially, we have to provide the dev kit to make games on PS4.[/i]
Shuhei Yoshida - SCE
What? Parts of that make no sense to me.
So they don’t want us to have to get an expensive dev kit, but to get games on the PS4 we need a dev kit. ???
(Why not make it like the Ouya where the console IS the dev kit?)
Maybe they’re saying “we have to provide the dev kit for free or at least cheap”. But Sony’s infamous for talking out of both sides of its mouth, so who knows.
Still, bad as Sony’s dev kit offerings are rumored to be, they’re a lot more than the nothingburger of Ouya’s “dev kit” which appears to amount to “hey the hardware’s unlocked, go use the emulator and just treat this console like a big misshapen phone”.
I do see no legitimate reason that a post-ship dev kit should cost so much however.
And my point is that (to my knowledge which is perhaps dated) GPL isn’t the only license involved. The docs used to say “check the top of each file for which license applies”. It is still true that all devs must sign a contributors agreement which assigns all ownership to Oracle so they are the sole owner of all copyrights and patents. I might be misremembering, but isn’t it also using V2? And doesn’t V2 not have verbage about patents?
Well if “taint” burns your ears, change it to “viral”.
OpenJDK is GPL as a whole. There may be individual files with other license terms, but they can only have more permissive licenses, not less. Therefore, it is the GPL license that counts.
GPLv2 has implicit patent grants. V3 made this much more explicit, and added things around third-party patent agreements. I’m not asserting that Oracle couldn’t try and assert patents (IANAL, blah, blah) but their attempt to assert patents on non-OpenJDK-derived code (Android) didn’t go so well! 
Trying to assert patents on code they’ve (well Sun) released under a license widely regarded to give you rights to use those patents is, I would have thought, even less likely to work out well.
Yeah, I know what you’re getting at, no need to be an ass about it! 
Besides the OT reason that I don’t consider the GPL anti-commercial or any more “viral” than many paid-for licenses (it’s all cost / benefit), the fact is that OpenJDK is GPL with Classpath Exception, and therefore isn’t “viral” or “tainted” in the way you mean!
That DirectX thing looks like an in-house developed layer made by Paradox on top of LibGCM, not something that is part of the PS4 SDK.
OpenGL on the other hand was part of the standard PS3 toolset (also built on top of LibGCM), so it seems very likely that OpenGL will be on PS4 too.
I am almost certain that PS4 uses OpenGL. I’ll find out and report back about Java and OpenGL… I have “contacts”…
Cas 
@nsigma: I think you’re still misunderstanding me. I’m not really commenting on GPL at all. (and again, I don’t “know” that if I type hg clone …; make; … that the resulting binaries are, without a doubt, GPLed). Remember that we’re not at all concerned about “legal” in the criminal sense. Any potential issues would be in civil court (and virtually insured to be in CA). And what’s the old saying? “You’re fate is determined by 12 people too stupid to get out of jury duty”. I think there are numerous examples of civil cases were the verdict more or less ignores legal merit. I certainly wouldn’t want to spend the rest of my life signing checks to Oracle because I pissed them off. Likely? Probably not…but why tempt fate. I would personally never muck around on any project unless there’s absolutely zero grey area legally. And that would require clarification from Oracle about their position.
Having said that: My guess is that you are correct and the result is GPL’d (version 2 only) + exception and it certainly seems, from ongoing projects, that they want to encourage embedding java at least on the desktop & servers. But I’d find it irresponsible to to present my guess as fact when I’ve never seen any official documentation to back it up.
Nice, LibGCM seems like a pretty cool library, found a nice read here and here.
The OpenGL support on PS3 is just a layer on top of LibGCM, however rumour has it that the PS4 has native OpenGL support. It’d be interesting to know which type of OpenGL (if any) is on PS4, whether its OpenGL ES2 or standard desktop OpenGL (like OpenGL 4.2). Its unlikely that OpenGL ES 2 will cut it for next-gen as there is heavy emphasis of use of things like compute shaders, geometry shaders, etc.
Apparently there will also some sort of indie-friendly self-publishing program. Could be interesting.
The way I understand it is that you will be able to create games on your PC for PS4, similar to what you can do with PS Mobile.
But if you want to really get down and dirty and low-level, you will need the devkit.
That wouldn’t be too bad considering the power of the PS4, only really big 3D projects will need the full-power anyway.
You do that 
I could imagine you need a devkit to get Java+LWJGL&friends up and running there though
You didn’t hear this from me and you don’t know. It’s Linux, with OpenGL4.3. OpenAL is available.
Cas
What?! :o :o :o
Wow, that’s interesting
Perhaps it could be a good idea to get some money together to buy a devkit then (i’d be willing to chip in if it could lead to something viable).
Is it the PS4 OS that’s Linux, or are just the development tools Linux based? The Naughty Dog guys have gone on record saying how nice Linux is as a platform to do your development on (in the Uncharted days), but afaik the PS3 doesn’t run on Linux, so I always sort of assumed that they were just talking about the development tools.
No idea why I’m asking you because you obviously didn’t say anything about the subject whatsoever
:o
That would be cool if Java games got onto the PS4
Now, what about XBox720?