Java on PS4 Initiative

General Discussions
#1

Perhaps it’s a good idea to define what exactly the result of this effort should be. What people should expect. What people should not expect.

I’ll make a first pitch (feel free to shoot holes in it :))

What people should NOT expect:

  • A way for any java developer to run and test their games on any PS4; you’ll still need a devkit, and you’ll still need to go through the proper channels at Sony to get anything published. This won’t miraculously turn the PS4 into an open platform.
  • Support for things like Java2D, Swing, AWT, JavaSound.

What we should aim for:

  • An headless JVM to be embedded in a game.
  • An OpenGL binding (I’d personally prefer LWJGL because of its popularity)
  • Basic support of PS4’s controllers
  • Basic support of PS4’s sound system
  • Preferrably a popular higher level library, such as libgdx (interesting for it’s wide platform support).
  • All of this should imho be available under a liberal open source license.

Nice to haves:

  • Support for some basic PSN features, such as in-app purchases, trophies, that kind of thing.
  • A port of an existing game as a proof-of-concept.

When we’re clear about what the scope of this will be, we should actively try to make people interested to work on this.
We should also be prepared for costs.
My understanding is that a PS4 devkit costs about 2500$.
Perhaps we shouldn’t expect people to work for free on this too, so we should probably aim at making an assessment here of what the total costs of this will be.

/braindump

#2

Split as a separate topic from the previous (which is now in chitchat) :point:

#3

So… anyone got a chance to get a DevKit?
My professors won’t apply for one because there isn’t really a reason for “Why the PS4 blabla is essential to your university course blabla” required for universities to apply.

#4

I think the most important question here is this:
Would anyone be seriously interested at all in being able to release a game on PS4/PSN, or is the PC and Android world just enough for what we intend to do?

Just guessing from the reactions in ‘that other thread’, I guess almost everybody is perfectly happy with PC and Android, and quite uninterested in consoles.
If so, we should probably just end this thread right here.
After all, there are also things like Unity, which is available right now and already runs on practically everything.

#5

Even a proof of concept would be interesting to show, for example during Siggraph 2014.

#6

Getting a game on PSN is borderline like getting it on Steam imo D:

Not to mention your game is actually on a freaking game console.
With a gamepad ready and everything

#7

Well, you know, if you want to get on a real console with Java now, support the Ouya.
If you’ve got an eye on the near-term future, look to the Steam Box.
But Playstation and XBone? … it’s unlikely to be really worth the effort unless you’re literally a AAA studio.

Cas :slight_smile:

#8

^This. It would take the effort of the entire Java community and then wait for the hesitant approval of the Playstation people. All of this excruciating work just to support one console.

If making this happen is not as hard as thought on this thread, then it would be very likely to happen. Until then, we just have to tinker around.

#9

While that’s all true of course, my thinking was that it would never hurt to at least investigate if it will be doable at all.
What the cost would be, if we could find the people to work on it, potential technical or licensing issues, that kind of thing.

Right now we don’t really know much what Sony’s plans are wrt self-publishing and how ‘indie-friendly’ the PS4 will really be, and the user base for the time being is 0 people.
Once these things becomes more clear and when/if PS4 will become actually interesting for us, we’d have a better idea of what to do.

#10

I have a gut feeling that it’ll actually be fairly easy to get headless openjdk working on PS4. LWJGL would be relatively simple to port from there. But if you remember how bad Sun and Oracle are at getting anything useful done in a timely fashion for indie game devs, you can imagine Sony, which is a bit like (Sun x Oracle)2. It looks like a fun sort of project, for certain values of fun, for people who live in total darkness for most of the year and have few physical friends.

Cas :slight_smile:

#11

Maybe notch would be able to convince sony to at least care / look at it.

#12

Markus has no powers against Sony.

Cas :slight_smile:

#13

He could just try to suggest that Minecraft is very popular and its java aaaand you wanna have more games like this on your platform and not xbox, riiight ?

you know, just trying :smiley:

#14

For XBOX, didn’t Mojang hire 4K Studio (was that the company?) and then that company ported it to C++/C#? Therefore, if Minecraft really wanted a place on PS4 I could see them rewriting it in C++/C#. I find that more likely than trying to set up Java on the PS4, which probably would end up being more work.

#15

This is a good point.

Honestly, porting Java code to C# .Net is a relativity easy process - Microsoft has definitely been encouraging developers to do it. Most of the process can be done automatically. If it isn’t done automatically - a lot of it can be done ‘blindly’ per se.

Porting to C++ would be a lot more difficult since Java and C++ are much further apart than Java and C# (which was built with Java in mind.)

XBox does have support for the .Net Compact Framework as well.

#16

Yes Yes, but politically we dont have to say it out loud. If Notch were interesting in helping getting java there, he would just say “well this is done with java, you better develop an interested.”
its all poker

#17

SIGH Hey everyone… ;D Been to this dance twice before…hoping 3rd times the charm!

#18

LOL yeah, and I guess a lot of the cynicism about the subject comes from there :wink:
Still, at least an effort was made and was met with enthusiasm from the community, even though it didn’t pan out (that I guess had mostly to do with Sony).
All said and done, I guess having you and (to a certain degree) Sun behind this community is missed here (at least by me :)).

#19

lol Chris popping in like that. You rascal :stuck_out_tongue:

Yeah well… lets hope without being too optimistic

#20

Heh. Deja vu all over again, huh? Well hopefully this time will be different - the stated attitude towards indies and the fact that Minecraft is one of the biggest indies games out there might work in our favour this time.

Anyway, Hi Chrism!!! How the hell have you been?