The thought of a JVM on the Playstation 2 is a very exciting concept. I will immediately be purchasing the java enabled device as soon as I know it is on the market.
Does anyone know when exactly those versions on the playstation will be available and possibly an indentifiable series number to ensure I get the right model?
Also does anyone know the limitations of Sony’s Java support, Sun seems to imply Sony will support Java 3D however I have found some URLs that state it won’t be supported immediately.
I will hopefully make this easier to get my answer.
Have any of you people who HAVE the Playstation 2 connected it to broadband yet?
If so you should be able to browse the net. Please msg me and I will set up a Java 3D Applet to see if your Playstation console will be able to render the code at the URL. (it will be a fun experiment!)
The possibilties for Java/Console support should yield concepts far more entertaining with higher abstractions than is whats possible with low level APIs in the old gaming world.
The graphics abilities and support are just a matter of time and computing power. Architecture should be everyones primary focus.
fed007,
– Control the present to control the past to control the future –
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Have any of you people who HAVE the Playstation 2 connected it to broadband yet?
If so you should be able to browse the net. Please msg me and I will set up a Java 3D Applet to see if your Playstation console will be able to render the code at the URL. (it will be a fun experiment!)
[/i]
I have the PS2 network adapter, no it does not come with a browser. You’ll have better luck talking with somebody that has the Linux kit. However, I doubt Java3D works on PS2 Linux.
If you could run Java3D games on a PS2 then you could write a game on PC and then it could be directly released on PC, Linux, Ps2 etc etc. As lots of people are doing this anyway, an easy way to use it would be potentially very valuable.
The capabilities and interfaces of the PC and PS2 are so utterly different from one another you are almost certainly wasting time even considering the idea. Just forget about it…
PC: Keyboard, mouse, joystick. Incredible amount of control available.
PS2: Crap gamepad thing. Unthinkable regression from Atari joystick. In fact, several crap gamepad things. Split screen action!
PC: Hires monitor, seen from about 3ft.
PS2: 320x256 television output, often seen from 10ft away. Theoretically it’s higher, but theoretically I can read the small print on mortgage agreements too.
That’s what I meant by interfaces, nothing loaded…
That’s only the half of it anyway. There’s the pitifully slow processor in the PS2 and the meagre 32Mb of RAM which isn’t going to grow any time soon, not to mention the radically different capabilities of the graphics architecture.
I work for Sony now Trust me, you won’t see Java on PS2.
[quote]PC: Keyboard, mouse, joystick. Incredible amount of control available.
PS2: Crap gamepad thing. Unthinkable regression from Atari joystick. In fact, several crap gamepad things. Split screen action!
[/quote]
Some PS2 games support USB keyboard and mice. That’s why the put the USB ports in there.
As for the “crap” controller, that’s one of the reasons I rather play on my console. I like games that depend on a simple controller. You can do more with a mouse and keyboard, but it’s a horrible interface for gaming. Not to mention, that there are already products that combine the PS2 gamepad and keyboard. However, I think using the keyboard for anything else than typing is the wrong direction.
Either way, I don’t see this as a big impediment to Java gaming on PS2. That is, unless you mean that Java doesn’t have a way to read the PS2 (or any console’s) gamepad.
I have a really nice Sony WEGA TV, that while it has MUCH more less resolution, I rather use it for watching DVDs and playing games. Also I’m more confortable playing in my sofa, than on my computer desk, which I spend most of the day working.
This is more like a dig against consoles, not a reason for Java to not work on a console.
I’m guessing you don’t like consoles?
Now these are valid points. I wonder what you mean by 32Mb of RAM that isn’t going to grown any time soon, it’s NEVER going to grow more than likely. That’s the point of the console.
The question here is does a Java game VM could fit on a console. The answer is yes, since smaller and less capable VMs can run on a phone. The question is, what types of games you could make with it. Probably Tetris and Tic Tac Toe, but not Jax & Dexter.
So what is really happening to the PS2, notice any trends with keyboards and mice peripherals now, what next? Virtual Reality Gear, New graphics modules to plug into the PS2, replacement components?
As long as a person can stay on their couch, it’s a sweet deal.
The line is obviously blurring between “console” and “computer”, I believe there will be a push by private venture to fill in the gaps in the graphics department (look how far we have come in such a short time in both console/PC graphics)
By focusing on Java and using better components we will be able to drive immersive VR environments and still satisfy TV users (This can be done today if sony supported the API). Also remember that applicable Nanotechnolog is right around the corner so no one should be caught touting there is not enough processing power…and that Java is slow…
Java is pure and high level, it also provides the abstractions necessary change the gaming world dramatically. All agree that this will come from a functional standpoint first then graphics…
Easily creating distributed architectures and spanning a large number of devices, portable/desktop/console places developers in an attractive position to make some serious $$$.
Keep in mind where this is all headed, IMMERSIVENESS
In my lifetime, I expect to see this, just another interface to the system.
Consoles are popular because they require no braincells and we can hook them up to our home theatre systems for a kickass experience.
If putting a JVM on PS2 and supporting the 3D API is so easy why haven’t they done it?
(I’ll betcha money is involved - the big boys do not want to lower the barrieir to entry)
As a more or less inside guy, do you know if Sony is already planning on using a more MHz powerfull MIPS core next time?
Seeing that the xbox is mostly popular because of its
higher performance, and Sony likes backward compatibility to allow old games on its new consoles, the 20KC core might not be bad for a playstation3 to top both, would it?
It is out a good year now, so prices shouldn’t be that high anymore. I read somewhere that some odd company wants to reach the 2GHz with that core. :o
I don’t know, but what would be the biggest stopper for a JVM anyway. Clockspeed or memorysize?
One thing also to note about JVMs is that anyone can produce a JVM as long as you are complient with Sun’s JVM’s specs. (Microcrap I mean MicroSoft was not compilient so they got sued and lost).
One qustion to ask is, how does one go about designing a JVM for a particular archetecture?
I dunno how I missed this post, or I would’ve said something earlier. See comments below:
[quote]PS2: Crap gamepad thing. Unthinkable regression from Atari joystick. In fact, several crap gamepad things. Split screen action!
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Your opinion is probably flying in the face of more than a few million console owners. Frankly I like the controller. I get less RSI problems from using that than gaming with a mouse. Frankly, I haven’t looked back since I stopped PC gaming and moved to the PS2.
Now if you want to talk crap controllers, take a look at the Xbox. THAT is my idea of a crap controller.
[quote]PS2: 320x256 television output, often seen from 10ft away. Theoretically it’s higher, but theoretically I can read the small print on mortgage agreements too.
[/quote]
Plenty of games are ported between consoles and the PC. They already deal with the difference in resolution – no reason why Java games should be any different. In fact, isn’t there an argument for Java doing better against the competition in those environments than it would against cutting edge PC games…
[quote]I work for Sony now Trust me, you won’t see Java on PS2.
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Would you care to put some money on that…? Cause I’ve seen a screenshot of Java running in a browser on the PS2. Maybe you mistyped and meant Java3D. In which case I won’t make any money from you after all.
I’ve got to say Jase that I’m all huff and puff really and it’s basically just my opinions!
WRT the controller, it’s about the coding to the available interfaces and the requirements for the style of game. The most extreme but irrelevant example I could give you is a text based adventure game - it won’t happen on a console because there’s no keyboard! You can get less and less extreme but still end up with the same fundamental problem - a game tends to be shaped by the available interfaces to it.
To write for PS/2 you necessarily forego any designs involving more than about 4 keys and/or a mouse and hires graphics. Age of Empires would not only be difficult to play with a gamepad but the tiny hires graphics would suffer terribly at TV resolution. The games that port lend themselves to low resolutions because they’re 3D and things of interest tend to loom large in the field of view.
And most of those console owners have never used a proper old fashioned Atari joystick so they don’t know what they’re missing Kids these days eh?
Now as for Java on the PS/2: if it can run on a Nokia I’m pretty sure it can run on a PS/2 but if by “run” you mean “be a serious contender to release the platform’s potential” instead of “execute pathetic Tetris clones at 5fps after interminable download on Sony’s brilliant new SonyNet idea, cor it’s just like the Internet except you have to pay Sony*” then yes, you might as well assume I’m right Fiver was it?
Ah and in case you weren’t reading between the lines there - any port of Java that will damage the reputations of any involved party is likely to be quietly sidelined once the dust has settled on the screenshots.
And a port of Java that runs like Java 1.0 on a 100Mhz Pentium is probably going to set Sun back years in credibility and Sony too. They will almost certainly determine that it is useless and bury it.
;D 8) :
Fiver was it?