Bloodridge

I know what you mean but there’s two things that worry me: Firstly, many people are (rightly) nervous of the ‘This program can harm your computer’ popups that come with Webstart. In my experience most ‘ordinary’ (ie non-programming) surfers will always click ‘No’. I’m forever telling people ‘If in doubt don’t run it’ - I can’t expect them to go against good advice! Once they’ve played it a few times without any security risk they’re much more likely to install the applet certificate to allow them to play multiplayer.
Secondly I know that if I do a Webstart version I’ll start to focus on that (because it’s prettier and faster) so the applet will start to slide down the agenda. Then there’s the issue of maintaining more than one codebase &c, &c.

[quote=“gouessej,post:20,topic:29395”]
I’d love to do a dedicated graphics engine but I doubt I could better jPCT - he’s spent years getting it right. I really don’t want to get side-tracked from my guiding principle: Good gameplay beats good graphics every time. Look at Runescape: terrible graphics, but 150,000 people play it every day!

[quote]I know what you mean but there’s two things that worry me: Firstly, many people are (rightly) nervous of the ‘This program can harm your computer’ popups that come with Webstart.
[/quote]
I second that, applets are much more accepted for webgames than webstart. Though applets lost a lot of ground to flash and shockwave… some portals wont even host applets these days :frowning:

Version 0.0.6 now up;

  • Overall AI improved.
  • ‘Keep’ mission map made fairer for svarts.
  • ‘Dungeon’ mission now completable - (but maybe too easy with that door?)

Any gameplay suggestions or ideas for new missions most welcome!

There is an intermediate solution : using an (unsigned) applet with JOGL and without Webstart. Do you know the class JOGLAppletLauncher?

Look at what is on the Sun’s website :

"This class enables deployment of high-end applets which use OpenGL for 3D graphics via JOGL and (optionally) OpenAL for spatialized audio via JOAL. The applet being deployed may be either signed or unsigned; if it is unsigned, it runs inside the security sandbox, and if it is signed, the user receives a security dialog to accept the certificate for the applet as well as for JOGL and JOAL.

The steps for deploying such applets are straightforward. First, the “archive” parameter to the applet tag must contain jogl.jar and gluegen-rt.jar, as well as any jar files associated with your applet (in this case, “your_applet.jar”).

Second, the codebase directory on the server, which contains the applet’s jar files, must also contain jogl.jar, gluegen-rt.jar, and all of the jogl-natives-.jar and gluegen-rt-natives-.jar files from the standard JOGL and GlueGen runtime distributions (provided in jogl-[version]-webstart.zip from the JOGL release builds and gluegen-rt-[version]-webstart.zip from the GlueGen runtime release builds). Note that the codebase of the applet is currently the location from which the JOGL native library used by the applet is downloaded. All of the JOGL and GlueGen-related jars must be signed by the same entity, which is typically Sun Microsystems, Inc.

To deploy an applet using both JOGL and JOAL, simply add joal.jar to the list of jars in the archive tag of the applet, and put joal.jar and the joal-natives-*.jar signed jars into the same codebase directory on the web server. These signed jars are supplied in the joal-[version]-webstart.zip archive from the JOAL release builds.

Sample applet code:

"

This thread isn’t about Jogl, the engine doesn’t use Jogl but LWJGL and Jogl is not the only shiny new hammer in the world…so why do you insist on that Jogl thing?

[quote=“EgonOlsen,post:25,topic:29395”]
Easy Egon! I think guoessej is just trying to be helpful! All suggestions are welcome as far as I’m concerned, whether I implement them or not…
I don’t plan to go to openGL for the time being - software rendering has the advantage of working everywhere and has a faster loading time as there’s no additional libraries to include. I’m focussing on gameplay rather than graphics ATM - if only I can give people that ‘oo-er’ feeling I got when I first played Doom all those years ago then I’ll be a happy bunny!

At the beginning of this thread, you suggested to use JOGL, it was only a suggestion… JOGL is more stable and will be integrated in the future release of Java. Therefore, it may be interesting to use it instead of LWJGL. I rarely use Microsoft Windows but when I played with Jake 2 (LWJGL version), the graphics driver had the computer crashed. SimonH is open minded. As JOGL will become standard, it will have “the advantage of working everywhere and a faster loading time”. On my view, JOGL is really the only way to produce excellent 3D graphics in a stable environment with Java.

SimonH is right and humble. He focuses on gameplay in order to drive his game funnier, I respect his choice. I hope that other people won’t have to choose between graphics ATM and gameplay by using a good engine and maybe mine when it is really “ready”. Don’t forget that LWJGL can work inside an applet since LWJGL 1.0 Beta 2, look at LWJGLInstaller and you only have to add this to install librairies if necessary :
try {
LWJGLInstaller.tempInstall();
} catch (Exception le) {
/* handle exception */
}
Good luck.

Version 0.0.7 just posted with a new NPC and a new single-player level added;

  • New solo mission ‘Town’ (with 2 levels of difficulty).
  • New spider NPC added.
  • Crosshair removed for melee weapons.
  • AI further improved.
  • Game scripting improved.
  • Some textures improved.

If anyone fancies building a level for me please let me know! I’ll give the artist full credit in the game…

I think this is some awesome work . It may be lacking here and there but I am a ‘big picture’ kind of person and I believe there is some potential. Keep up the good work!

Thanks for comments sj! Tell me where it’s lacking though - I want the best I can do! Don’t spare my feelings, right is right!

[quote]On my view, JOGL is really the only way to produce excellent 3D graphics in a stable environment with Java.
[/quote]
You’re entitled to an opinion, but don’t forget there have been multiple award winning commercial games produced using LWJGL. For me that’s proof enough against your statement.
If you experienced some crash, it was probably a bug in the game or video driver, not in the binding.

[quote=“erikd,post:31,topic:29395”]
But the most successful java game; Runescape, uses software rendering… Why is every one so hot on OpenGL? If good graphics are everything (as gamers lore would have it) how come a visually weak game like Runescape has (does quick check) 83424 players as I write?
Personally I’m impressed with the software rendering of the jPCT API - it’s not the Unreal engine but it runs well in a browser. I’m convinced that people want games within the browser they know and love and I want Bloodridge working there, so it’s software rendering for the foreseeable…

Please don’t turn this thread into a JOGL v. LWJGL debate - Comments and suggestions on the game and gameplay, please!

[quote=“SimonH,post:32,topic:29395”]
But at least it uses the exact same filtering algorithm… ;D

No, it wasn’t a problem in the video driver. There are some conflicts between OpenGL and DirectDraw under Microsoft Windows. It is no more a problem if you use JOGL with at least JRE 1.6. I tested the same game with several computers under Microsoft Windows but with different graphics cards (Radeon 9200, Rage pro maxx, Millenium G450, Geforce 6800 Ultra) from different vendors (Matrox,ATI and NVIDIA). Yes, you’re right on one precise point, I tested only one game. But my experiments prooved at least that it is highly improbable to be a problem of drivers. If I were entitled to an opinion, I would not perform some experiments to check if you’re right.

Your game is really good! But OpenGL could allow you to improve the gameplay. It would be quicker and then more pleasant to play. I suggested you a way to use OpenGL in an applet so what prevents you from thinking about it? I hope it is only the difficulty of writing an engine. I don’t tell you that good graphics are enough to make a good game but it can help.
About your game, could you improve a very little bit the collision system please? Sometimes, the arms of the warrior go through the wall.
Could you find a way of improving the aiming system? I find the bow is hard to use.

Oops! Funny the things you can overlook! Now fixed for next version - thanks!

You’re right again. I’m looking at this ATM - it’s a strikeoff between ease of aiming and weapon strength…

FWIW, I’m not trying to turn this into a JOGL v. LWJGL debate, I’m just responding to some suggestion that JOGL is the way to go to make commercial grade OGL games because that’s simply not true. I’m sorry for the off-topic comment but I felt this particular pro-JOGL/anti-LWJGL comment might make people give a wrong impression and will make people make decisions based on FUD (without trying to imply any bad intentions of the poster of said comments). Let’s just keep it at that :slight_smile:

You made the decision to go for sw rendering using the impressive jPCT library, which is a good choice because sw rendering ‘just works’, and especially because with jPCT you have the option to use OGL for rendering too.
I personally agree with gouessej though that using OGL might increase playability because you will get better framerates. The framerates I was getting were a bit on the low side (about 10-15) which I felt really did affect gameplay in your action oriented game (which Runescape is not).

You games shows a lot of potential though, so I’ll keep following development of this. Hopefully there will be a version some day with an OGL option :wink:

[quote=“erikd,post:37,topic:29395”]
Exactly. People don’t come back; If it doesn’t work first time they don’t bother again. I’ve followed the forums and found many problems with OGL applets. Bloodridge has been played from this forum over 100 times and not one crash reported - long live software rendering! Having said that, I’d really love to up the framerate and graphics quality… OpenGL: you speak to my heart, but my head says no…

BTW I’m experimenting with an auto-aiming system and it totally changes the gameplay - Doom, Tomb Raider &c. were heavily dependant on autoaim but Wolfenstein, Thief &c. relied on aiming skill - here’s another critical design issue…

Yes, afaik there are still compatibility issues with OGL & applets. Since jPCT does support OGL already it might still be interesting to give it a go, maybe as a webstarted version too (which I think has less compatibility problems), marked with ‘Beta, for OpenGL enabled computers only’ or something like that. I’m quite sure the people who will have it working (the majority), will enjoy your game more.
But whatever you decide, you will always have the current, reliable software rendered version…

fwiw, I almost exclusively use JWS, and my games are started about a 1000 times a day without getting much complaints about using JWS instead of applets (although I have to admit I do get them once a month or so). I’m choosing JWS + full-screen OpenGL using LWJGL because I’m mainly interested in getting the best gameplay experience and since I don’t have any commercial intentions atm, I ‘kind of’ accept the fact that it won’t work on each and every computer.

Auto aiming might be cool, I’m guessing it could make gameplay more frantic, right?

Version 0.0.8 now up;

  • Auto-aiming implemented.
  • Collision detection improved.
  • Edit: Right mouse button/ctrl can now be held down for continuous fire.

The auto-aiming does change the game a lot - the bow becomes much better and the bombs (weapon 4) less useful!
I’ve included an option to turn it off - which do you guys prefer?