Advice for Game Designers

[pjt33]

@philfrei

I don’t see college teaching one to “design” a game. I think it is terrific for learning how to program a game, to teach one the techniques for creating the needed data structures. But the “art” side of it? I don’t know, and I don’t know how that is taught, except by doing.

I agree that you have to design games to learn how to design games, but I can see potential value in a course which includes practical group sessions where you analyse games and debate what works well and what doesn’t. My degree is in CompSci rather than anything aimed at game design, but I can draw a parallel with some of the discussions I had over lunch with colleagues at Jagex.

[quote]The ideas for game designs can come from anywhere. Maybe, in college, while taking “breadth” classes, instead of focusing exclusively on CompSci, one is exposed to something in a History class or Literature class or Anthropology class that is inspiring or triggers ideas for games. So Sociology or Poly Sci, or Organic Chemistry or who knows what!
[/quote]
It’s worth noting that that kind of breadth in a degree course is fairly US-specific.

[Demonpants]

@tberthel

@Eli Delventhal

It took me 3 months for me to get a job after graduating with a bachelor’s degree, #1 in my CS class, won awards, got into honor societies, had extracurriculars out the wazoo, all that crap. And I was looking in the San Francisco Bay Area, where it seems there are more tech jobs than there are people to fill them. I applied to around 100 places and only heard back from around 10, only got interviews at 3.

Ever since getting my first job, I literally have recruiters getting my phone number from some where and calling me. I have 2 or 3 emails about job opportunities a week, sometimes per day. It’s sort of silly.

My point is not that I’m oh so lucky or oh so smart, my point is that the first job is by far the most difficult, and it will take a whole lot of effort and patience to get it. But once you’re in, you’re in. You’ll always have a friend in some company-or-other that’s hiring and you’ll also have recruiters trying to get you to work somewhere else. Basically companies are rarely willing to take a risk in hiring, and it’s expensive to give interviews. If you think about how much engineers are paid and an entire day for an interview, you’d better be certain that candidate is pretty good or you’re going to waste a lot of resources.

And when I interview people, I look for general aptitude and intelligence and team fit (i.e. not being an asshole), not their degree or level of experience, really. But to get to an interview you need a decent resume, and most jobs say “minimum bachelor’s in computer science or equivalent.”

In summary: the first step is difficult, but after that if you’re smart and make friends it’s easy as pie to find work.

I think getting a degree is a very good idea, because just one is often a requirement to even be looked at until you have had a few jobs in the industry. I also think college teaches a lot of good things that aren’t easily measured.

1. Just because recruiters send you stuff and you get interviews does not mean you will get work before you run out of money. I actually get a bunch more than 2-3 emails a week in fact it is more like 5 emails everyday. So, attention from possible employers does not mean a job.

2. You are actually above the norm upon graduation. I had no doubt someone would offer you a job eventually. I actually had my first software engineering job in 2 interviews right after graduation, but now I couldn’t get a job at Walmart much less at Google as even a cashier. I don’t think you understand what can happen if people know your being screwed over.

All I can say is don’t quit your first job you may never get a real chance anywhere. I didn’t. Not that is matters anymore.

Also, it doesn’t matter if you have a degree if you don’t need a job. I was fooled just like many are that you need an education to make money. In the real world it is about Fascism and stealing billions from tax payers to get ahead. You will never make real money when working for scum that sends all of the work far away. When your new car smell wears off they will throw you away in a second, and get another sucker.

@1. Also I get job offers, but those obviously aren’t from recruiters, they’re from friends. Job offer means a job.
@2. By above the norm you mean it took longer than the norm? What does “I don’t think you understand what can happen if people know your being screwed over” even mean? I am usually very clear when I am being screwed over. And I say so, and it generally gets fixed. Or I quit and work somewhere else. No big deal. You won’t get anywhere if you don’t stand up in yourself, but you also can’t be an asshole about it. Be clear, logical, and fair. And fairness is what you’ll get in return.

I already quit my first job. I’m on #3 right now. And some day in the future I will probably leave this one too. I work in the game industry where there’s a whole lot of nepotism, so maybe I’m not the norm here, but by now I know so many people at so many different companies that I can get jobs pretty much immediately upon leaving another. I got this past one 3 days after I went for it, which was 2 weeks after leaving the job I had before it. Because I did a good interview, had a good resume, and… knew people at the company.

Also, I’m not a paranoid nut job, I think that helps.

PS - if you want a computer job, your degree does matter. Or you need a lot of experience. So either do freelance work for a while to get your experience, or get a degree. You’re not going to get hired without one of the two. Also, there are lots of cute girls in college, and you may even meet your wife like I did.

[tberthel]

@Eli Delventhal

@tberthel

@Eli Delventhal

It took me 3 months for me to get a job after graduating with a bachelor’s degree, #1 in my CS class, won awards, got into honor societies, had extracurriculars out the wazoo, all that crap. And I was looking in the San Francisco Bay Area, where it seems there are more tech jobs than there are people to fill them. I applied to around 100 places and only heard back from around 10, only got interviews at 3.

Ever since getting my first job, I literally have recruiters getting my phone number from some where and calling me. I have 2 or 3 emails about job opportunities a week, sometimes per day. It’s sort of silly.

My point is not that I’m oh so lucky or oh so smart, my point is that the first job is by far the most difficult, and it will take a whole lot of effort and patience to get it. But once you’re in, you’re in. You’ll always have a friend in some company-or-other that’s hiring and you’ll also have recruiters trying to get you to work somewhere else. Basically companies are rarely willing to take a risk in hiring, and it’s expensive to give interviews. If you think about how much engineers are paid and an entire day for an interview, you’d better be certain that candidate is pretty good or you’re going to waste a lot of resources.

And when I interview people, I look for general aptitude and intelligence and team fit (i.e. not being an asshole), not their degree or level of experience, really. But to get to an interview you need a decent resume, and most jobs say “minimum bachelor’s in computer science or equivalent.”

In summary: the first step is difficult, but after that if you’re smart and make friends it’s easy as pie to find work.

I think getting a degree is a very good idea, because just one is often a requirement to even be looked at until you have had a few jobs in the industry. I also think college teaches a lot of good things that aren’t easily measured.

1. Just because recruiters send you stuff and you get interviews does not mean you will get work before you run out of money. I actually get a bunch more than 2-3 emails a week in fact it is more like 5 emails everyday. So, attention from possible employers does not mean a job.

2. You are actually above the norm upon graduation. I had no doubt someone would offer you a job eventually. I actually had my first software engineering job in 2 interviews right after graduation, but now I couldn’t get a job at Walmart much less at Google as even a cashier. I don’t think you understand what can happen if people know your being screwed over.

All I can say is don’t quit your first job you may never get a real chance anywhere. I didn’t. Not that is matters anymore.

Also, it doesn’t matter if you have a degree if you don’t need a job. I was fooled just like many are that you need an education to make money. In the real world it is about Fascism and stealing billions from tax payers to get ahead. You will never make real money when working for scum that sends all of the work far away. When your new car smell wears off they will throw you away in a second, and get another sucker.

@1. Also I get job offers, but those obviously aren’t from recruiters, they’re from friends. Job offer means a job.
@2. By above the norm you mean it took longer than the norm? What does “I don’t think you understand what can happen if people know your being screwed over” even mean? I am usually very clear when I am being screwed over. And I say so, and it generally gets fixed. Or I quit and work somewhere else. No big deal. You won’t get anywhere if you don’t stand up in yourself, but you also can’t be an asshole about it. Be clear, logical, and fair. And fairness is what you’ll get in return.

I already quit my first job. I’m on #3 right now. And some day in the future I will probably leave this one too. I work in the game industry where there’s a whole lot of nepotism, so maybe I’m not the norm here, but by now I know so many people at so many different companies that I can get jobs pretty much immediately upon leaving another. I got this past one 3 days after I went for it, which was 2 weeks after leaving the job I had before it. Because I did a good interview, had a good resume, and… knew people at the company.

Also, I’m not a paranoid nut job, I think that helps.

PS - if you want a computer job, your degree does matter. Or you need a lot of experience. So either do freelance work for a while to get your experience, or get a degree. You’re not going to get hired without one of the two. Also, there are lots of cute girls in college, and you may even meet your wife like I did.

1. Networking is for Hitler, Stalin, Clinton, Bush, Obama and other Germanic tribe nut jobs. You act as if your just another person networking your way to success like them. People that support the Fascist, Communist, and Socialist nut jobs are the people you support by using networking to get ahead of those that don’t have friends. Good CS != Networking like a Germanic Thief

2. Being screwed by government actions not directly by employers was what I had implied. Sorry for the confusion. It comes in 3 pieces: 1. Redistribution by regulation: Like Affirmative Action cost me a degree from a University that had more jobs for grads. And many other regulatory Germanic like policies. 2. Redistribution by wealth transfer: House Mortgage deduction, Child Tax Credit, TSA, SS, MediCare, and thousands of other extermination programs for the Germanic like leadership. 3. Personal actions against me directly: Denied the right to bear arms, Check fraud by the ATF against me, and Illegal searches and item collection.

3. Your lucky to have found people that help you so easily. I don’t make friends because my long term unemployment from birth has made it impossible for me to relate to Fascist, Communist, and Socialist that are running the world into the toilet via social engineering by taking all my work and giving it to others. The employers I had all had Germanic like methods of extorting money from others to stay in business instead of producing a product for a profit so they were never real jobs.

I am not paranoid. The redistribution projects are real they are not in my imagination. Germanic/Fascist/National Socialist philosophy is wrong and them taking everything I work for just to fund a very few.

Finally, if you have time for girlfriends, boyfriends, or friends in college then your just another lucky rich person that will get everything for free just like Obama and other Fascist friends. Real people must get work done to survive the Fascist scum sucking assholes.

[ra4king]

Wow tberthel, you are one angry and quite political man!

[tberthel]

@ra4king

Wow tberthel, you are one angry and quite political man!

In fact I hate politics. I am not political at all. I don’t lie, cheat, or take to get more power. The politics is what I am complaining about so you have it backwards.

[pitbuller]

tberthel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

[Mike]

@tberthel

Finally, if you have time for girlfriends, boyfriends, or friends in college then your just another lucky rich person that will get everything for free just like Obama and other Fascist friends. Real people must get work done to survive the Fascist scum sucking assholes.

Haha, this part made it really clear that you’re just typing to get a nice discussion and not what you really think. I do like your posts even if neither you nor me agree to them

Mike

[pjt33]

Why are people still feeding the troll?

[tberthel]

@Mickelukas

@tberthel

Finally, if you have time for girlfriends, boyfriends, or friends in college then your just another lucky rich person that will get everything for free just like Obama and other Fascist friends. Real people must get work done to survive the Fascist scum sucking assholes.

Haha, this part made it really clear that you’re just typing to get a nice discussion and not what you really think. I do like your posts even if neither you nor me agree to them

Mike

No it is real.

[tberthel]

@pitbuller

tberthel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

Are you saying that complaining about redistribution is like that of the past in Germany, or is in some way playing some kind of card?

You do realize that many Jewish, Gypsies, Impoverished, and other German citizens died long before gas chambers, death camps, and firing squads. They did it with House Ownership deduction, destruction of property, and gun control long before it got really dirty. Similarly, in the U.S. we have House Mortgage deduction, use of warrants to take property not related to illegal activity, and ATF in the U.S. today.

Many people die because they can’t afford the new life style that the government requires for basic existence now than it did before the Fascist, Communist, and Socialist started pushing for social redistribution. Mainly this has been accomplished by not allowing people to produce anything through regulation and fear mongering over cheap energy production. Buying power has fallen for 39 of 40 years in the U.S., and they will get dirty eventually, but for now they just kill those that can’t defend themselves and don’t fit in with the redistribution programs.

So, in the U.S. we are not on the slippery slope of Fascism baiting comments with Reductio_ad_Hitlerum. We are actually already in the slow kill phase, and have been for a while through redistribution. From stolen homes, guns, and other property to the need for a quadruple bypass that went to pay for Acorn or other Fascist, Communist, or Socialist group program.

[teletubo]

@spotco

@ra4king

So I should go with a Masters in Computer Science or is it pointless and I should rather focus my energy into being an indie game developer?

A masters (or even just a bachelor’s) in CS/CE will almost guarentee a well-paying job after getting out, and if you find out you like that kind of stuff then more power to you.
But for the indie route, let’s just say not everyone becomes a notch

I agree with that . Education is important no matter what you choose to be .
Unless you’re a genius, which (no offense) I don’t believe you are.

And as Eli said, the university can be a nice place to grow up. You’ll meet a lot of different people with diiferent background and will learn not only the technical stuff, but you’ll also learn to deal with different people, learn respect and learn to accept your failures and successes and not blaming the world for it .

In any case you can still develop your indie games while in the university , you dont need to choose just one path . And in the university you’ll have far more free time than after you’re graduated , as lots of folks stated here …

[fletchergames]

About the actual topic…

I don’t have computer science degree, though I do have a minor in computer science. I didn’t learn enough information to justify the vast amount of money I spent, but I acknowledge that I could have learned significantly more if I had been a better student. However, very little of the course material was relevant to game programming.

There were high-level courses in computer graphics and networking that would have been useful, but I didn’t have the requirements to take those classes.

After college, I’ve been trying for years to make games. And everything I’ve made has been garbage. It’s gradually becoming better garbage, but I’m not on any path to ever being good.

So I didn’t really benefit that much either from college or from trying to develop games at home. There’s more to becoming a game developer than just completing a few classes or making a better version of Pong at home. I don’t know what the path to being a real game developer is, but I have a feeling that I’m not on it.

I don’t know if this really counts as advice or not.

[tberthel]

@fletchergames

About the actual topic…

I don’t have computer science degree, though I do have a minor in computer science. I didn’t learn enough information to justify the vast amount of money I spent, but I acknowledge that I could have learned significantly more if I had been a better student. However, very little of the course material was relevant to game programming.

There were high-level courses in computer graphics and networking that would have been useful, but I didn’t have the requirements to take those classes.

After college, I’ve been trying for years to make games. And everything I’ve made has been garbage. It’s gradually becoming better garbage, but I’m not on any path to ever being good.

So I didn’t really benefit that much either from college or from trying to develop games at home. There’s more to becoming a game developer than just completing a few classes or making a better version of Pong at home. I don’t know what the path to being a real game developer is, but I have a feeling that I’m not on it.

I don’t know if this really counts as advice or not.

fletchergames,

If you have a hard time making games then you should just start with a high level tool. Go with Unity, UDK, or Crysis SDK (when it becomes semi free) and run with that. Those tools will give you much of the correct philosophy required to make good games and give you a nearly free 10 year head start on people like me, cas, and others that built their own tools.

Gaming Education

I took game programming 1 & 2 at UNT, and it helped many people I went to school with get work at Terminal Reality and other places. I already knew most of what was provided and just used the time to make an existing game better. In short I would say you just need to make games but use existing tools unless you just have the urge to lose 10 years or create a new development platform.

[fletchergames]

@tberthel

fletchergames,

If you have a hard time making games then you should just start with a high level tool. Go with Unity, UDK, or Crysis SDK (when it becomes semi free) and run with that. Those tools will give you much of the correct philosophy required to make good games and give you a nearly free 10 year head start on people like me, cas, and others that built their own tools.

That sounds like excellent advice. I’ve been resisting using 3rd party tools for a long time, but I think that’s the only realistic choice I have for creating games that use 21st century technology.

Right now, I’m making a Rogue-like, so the proper thing to do would be to start with an existing Rogue-like engine and modify. However, I’m going to still finish my own engine for this game. I’ve implemented essentially every feature of a Rogue-like at one time or another (with the notable exception of random map generation). I do have the technical know-how to generate a Rogue-like - I can outdo games from 30 years ago.

The main issue I have for this particular game is that I have to actually work on it. There’s been long periods where I haven’t touched it. In the time periods where I did work on it, I spent alot of time fiddling around with graphical user interface elements and making a map editor. Adding actual features to the game should go much more quickly.

In some sense, this is a waste of time. The end result isn’t going to be a game people will buy, but I’m content to make a Rogue-like just as a hobby.

[tberthel]

@fletchergames

@tberthel

fletchergames,

If you have a hard time making games then you should just start with a high level tool. Go with Unity, UDK, or Crysis SDK (when it becomes semi free) and run with that. Those tools will give you much of the correct philosophy required to make good games and give you a nearly free 10 year head start on people like me, cas, and others that built their own tools.

That sounds like excellent advice. I’ve been resisting using 3rd party tools for a long time, but I think that’s the only realistic choice I have for creating games that use 21st century technology.

Right now, I’m making a Rogue-like, so the proper thing to do would be to start with an existing Rogue-like engine and modify. However, I’m going to still finish my own engine for this game. I’ve implemented essentially every feature of a Rogue-like at one time or another (with the notable exception of random map generation). I do have the technical know-how to generate a Rogue-like - I can outdo games from 30 years ago.

The main issue I have for this particular game is that I have to actually work on it. There’s been long periods where I haven’t touched it. In the time periods where I did work on it, I spent alot of time fiddling around with graphical user interface elements and making a map editor. Adding actual features to the game should go much more quickly.

In some sense, this is a waste of time. The end result isn’t going to be a game people will buy, but I’m content to make a Rogue-like just as a hobby.

How much of: http://www.orbitalcows.com/ is yours?

I think we talked about this long ago, and I think you should ignore my previous advice. I looked at your games and I think you should do the following instead:

1. Use J2AS or use GWT for HTML5 or Flash output
2. Push your games on Flash websites with adverts

You have lots of assets being wasted that would make you plenty. I didn’t realize you had done so much. Great work BTW.

I also think that if you wanted to share then I could port them to my AllBinary Platform for J2ME and Android, but I have not finished my Adobe Air or HTML5 output yet.

[ReBirth]

@fletchergames
did you build all games of OC without any engine? I mean, from scratch?

[loom_weaver]

@fletchergames

Right now, I’m making a Rogue-like, so the proper thing to do would be to start with an existing Rogue-like engine and modify. However, I’m going to still finish my own engine for this game. I’ve implemented essentially every feature of a Rogue-like at one time or another (with the notable exception of random map generation). I do have the technical know-how to generate a Rogue-like - I can outdo games from 30 years ago.

Cool, do you have any more information? I’m working on a Rogue-like as well so I’m curious to find out more about what you have done and what your approaches to various aspects of the game are.

[Demonpants]

@tberthel

@Eli Delventhal

@tberthel

@Eli Delventhal

It took me 3 months for me to get a job after graduating with a bachelor’s degree, #1 in my CS class, won awards, got into honor societies, had extracurriculars out the wazoo, all that crap. And I was looking in the San Francisco Bay Area, where it seems there are more tech jobs than there are people to fill them. I applied to around 100 places and only heard back from around 10, only got interviews at 3.

Ever since getting my first job, I literally have recruiters getting my phone number from some where and calling me. I have 2 or 3 emails about job opportunities a week, sometimes per day. It’s sort of silly.

My point is not that I’m oh so lucky or oh so smart, my point is that the first job is by far the most difficult, and it will take a whole lot of effort and patience to get it. But once you’re in, you’re in. You’ll always have a friend in some company-or-other that’s hiring and you’ll also have recruiters trying to get you to work somewhere else. Basically companies are rarely willing to take a risk in hiring, and it’s expensive to give interviews. If you think about how much engineers are paid and an entire day for an interview, you’d better be certain that candidate is pretty good or you’re going to waste a lot of resources.

And when I interview people, I look for general aptitude and intelligence and team fit (i.e. not being an asshole), not their degree or level of experience, really. But to get to an interview you need a decent resume, and most jobs say “minimum bachelor’s in computer science or equivalent.”

In summary: the first step is difficult, but after that if you’re smart and make friends it’s easy as pie to find work.

I think getting a degree is a very good idea, because just one is often a requirement to even be looked at until you have had a few jobs in the industry. I also think college teaches a lot of good things that aren’t easily measured.

1. Just because recruiters send you stuff and you get interviews does not mean you will get work before you run out of money. I actually get a bunch more than 2-3 emails a week in fact it is more like 5 emails everyday. So, attention from possible employers does not mean a job.

2. You are actually above the norm upon graduation. I had no doubt someone would offer you a job eventually. I actually had my first software engineering job in 2 interviews right after graduation, but now I couldn’t get a job at Walmart much less at Google as even a cashier. I don’t think you understand what can happen if people know your being screwed over.

All I can say is don’t quit your first job you may never get a real chance anywhere. I didn’t. Not that is matters anymore.

Also, it doesn’t matter if you have a degree if you don’t need a job. I was fooled just like many are that you need an education to make money. In the real world it is about Fascism and stealing billions from tax payers to get ahead. You will never make real money when working for scum that sends all of the work far away. When your new car smell wears off they will throw you away in a second, and get another sucker.

@1. Also I get job offers, but those obviously aren’t from recruiters, they’re from friends. Job offer means a job.
@2. By above the norm you mean it took longer than the norm? What does “I don’t think you understand what can happen if people know your being screwed over” even mean? I am usually very clear when I am being screwed over. And I say so, and it generally gets fixed. Or I quit and work somewhere else. No big deal. You won’t get anywhere if you don’t stand up in yourself, but you also can’t be an asshole about it. Be clear, logical, and fair. And fairness is what you’ll get in return.

I already quit my first job. I’m on #3 right now. And some day in the future I will probably leave this one too. I work in the game industry where there’s a whole lot of nepotism, so maybe I’m not the norm here, but by now I know so many people at so many different companies that I can get jobs pretty much immediately upon leaving another. I got this past one 3 days after I went for it, which was 2 weeks after leaving the job I had before it. Because I did a good interview, had a good resume, and… knew people at the company.

Also, I’m not a paranoid nut job, I think that helps.

PS - if you want a computer job, your degree does matter. Or you need a lot of experience. So either do freelance work for a while to get your experience, or get a degree. You’re not going to get hired without one of the two. Also, there are lots of cute girls in college, and you may even meet your wife like I did.

1. Networking is for Hitler, Stalin, Clinton, Bush, Obama and other Germanic tribe nut jobs. You act as if your just another person networking your way to success like them. People that support the Fascist, Communist, and Socialist nut jobs are the people you support by using networking to get ahead of those that don’t have friends. Good CS != Networking like a Germanic Thief

2. Being screwed by government actions not directly by employers was what I had implied. Sorry for the confusion. It comes in 3 pieces: 1. Redistribution by regulation: Like Affirmative Action cost me a degree from a University that had more jobs for grads. And many other regulatory Germanic like policies. 2. Redistribution by wealth transfer: House Mortgage deduction, Child Tax Credit, TSA, SS, MediCare, and thousands of other extermination programs for the Germanic like leadership. 3. Personal actions against me directly: Denied the right to bear arms, Check fraud by the ATF against me, and Illegal searches and item collection.

3. Your lucky to have found people that help you so easily. I don’t make friends because my long term unemployment from birth has made it impossible for me to relate to Fascist, Communist, and Socialist that are running the world into the toilet via social engineering by taking all my work and giving it to others. The employers I had all had Germanic like methods of extorting money from others to stay in business instead of producing a product for a profit so they were never real jobs.

I am not paranoid. The redistribution projects are real they are not in my imagination. Germanic/Fascist/National Socialist philosophy is wrong and them taking everything I work for just to fund a very few.

Finally, if you have time for girlfriends, boyfriends, or friends in college then your just another lucky rich person that will get everything for free just like Obama and other Fascist friends. Real people must get work done to survive the Fascist scum sucking assholes.

L O fucking L.

I’ve never been associated with Hitler before, or told that I get everything for free. A first time for everything!

PS - By networking I mean being good at my job and being a fun person to work with. Therefore, people want to work with me again! You should try it sometime.

PPS - Your games really… erm… suck for you having so much experience. Think maybe that’s why you don’t get hired?

[tberthel]

@Eli Delventhal

@tberthel

@Eli Delventhal

@tberthel

@Eli Delventhal

It took me 3 months for me to get a job after graduating with a bachelor’s degree, #1 in my CS class, won awards, got into honor societies, had extracurriculars out the wazoo, all that crap. And I was looking in the San Francisco Bay Area, where it seems there are more tech jobs than there are people to fill them. I applied to around 100 places and only heard back from around 10, only got interviews at 3.

Ever since getting my first job, I literally have recruiters getting my phone number from some where and calling me. I have 2 or 3 emails about job opportunities a week, sometimes per day. It’s sort of silly.

My point is not that I’m oh so lucky or oh so smart, my point is that the first job is by far the most difficult, and it will take a whole lot of effort and patience to get it. But once you’re in, you’re in. You’ll always have a friend in some company-or-other that’s hiring and you’ll also have recruiters trying to get you to work somewhere else. Basically companies are rarely willing to take a risk in hiring, and it’s expensive to give interviews. If you think about how much engineers are paid and an entire day for an interview, you’d better be certain that candidate is pretty good or you’re going to waste a lot of resources.

And when I interview people, I look for general aptitude and intelligence and team fit (i.e. not being an asshole), not their degree or level of experience, really. But to get to an interview you need a decent resume, and most jobs say “minimum bachelor’s in computer science or equivalent.”

In summary: the first step is difficult, but after that if you’re smart and make friends it’s easy as pie to find work.

I think getting a degree is a very good idea, because just one is often a requirement to even be looked at until you have had a few jobs in the industry. I also think college teaches a lot of good things that aren’t easily measured.

1. Just because recruiters send you stuff and you get interviews does not mean you will get work before you run out of money. I actually get a bunch more than 2-3 emails a week in fact it is more like 5 emails everyday. So, attention from possible employers does not mean a job.

2. You are actually above the norm upon graduation. I had no doubt someone would offer you a job eventually. I actually had my first software engineering job in 2 interviews right after graduation, but now I couldn’t get a job at Walmart much less at Google as even a cashier. I don’t think you understand what can happen if people know your being screwed over.

All I can say is don’t quit your first job you may never get a real chance anywhere. I didn’t. Not that is matters anymore.

Also, it doesn’t matter if you have a degree if you don’t need a job. I was fooled just like many are that you need an education to make money. In the real world it is about Fascism and stealing billions from tax payers to get ahead. You will never make real money when working for scum that sends all of the work far away. When your new car smell wears off they will throw you away in a second, and get another sucker.

@1. Also I get job offers, but those obviously aren’t from recruiters, they’re from friends. Job offer means a job.
@2. By above the norm you mean it took longer than the norm? What does “I don’t think you understand what can happen if people know your being screwed over” even mean? I am usually very clear when I am being screwed over. And I say so, and it generally gets fixed. Or I quit and work somewhere else. No big deal. You won’t get anywhere if you don’t stand up in yourself, but you also can’t be an asshole about it. Be clear, logical, and fair. And fairness is what you’ll get in return.

I already quit my first job. I’m on #3 right now. And some day in the future I will probably leave this one too. I work in the game industry where there’s a whole lot of nepotism, so maybe I’m not the norm here, but by now I know so many people at so many different companies that I can get jobs pretty much immediately upon leaving another. I got this past one 3 days after I went for it, which was 2 weeks after leaving the job I had before it. Because I did a good interview, had a good resume, and… knew people at the company.

Also, I’m not a paranoid nut job, I think that helps.

PS - if you want a computer job, your degree does matter. Or you need a lot of experience. So either do freelance work for a while to get your experience, or get a degree. You’re not going to get hired without one of the two. Also, there are lots of cute girls in college, and you may even meet your wife like I did.

1. Networking is for Hitler, Stalin, Clinton, Bush, Obama and other Germanic tribe nut jobs. You act as if your just another person networking your way to success like them. People that support the Fascist, Communist, and Socialist nut jobs are the people you support by using networking to get ahead of those that don’t have friends. Good CS != Networking like a Germanic Thief

2. Being screwed by government actions not directly by employers was what I had implied. Sorry for the confusion. It comes in 3 pieces: 1. Redistribution by regulation: Like Affirmative Action cost me a degree from a University that had more jobs for grads. And many other regulatory Germanic like policies. 2. Redistribution by wealth transfer: House Mortgage deduction, Child Tax Credit, TSA, SS, MediCare, and thousands of other extermination programs for the Germanic like leadership. 3. Personal actions against me directly: Denied the right to bear arms, Check fraud by the ATF against me, and Illegal searches and item collection.

3. Your lucky to have found people that help you so easily. I don’t make friends because my long term unemployment from birth has made it impossible for me to relate to Fascist, Communist, and Socialist that are running the world into the toilet via social engineering by taking all my work and giving it to others. The employers I had all had Germanic like methods of extorting money from others to stay in business instead of producing a product for a profit so they were never real jobs.

I am not paranoid. The redistribution projects are real they are not in my imagination. Germanic/Fascist/National Socialist philosophy is wrong and them taking everything I work for just to fund a very few.

Finally, if you have time for girlfriends, boyfriends, or friends in college then your just another lucky rich person that will get everything for free just like Obama and other Fascist friends. Real people must get work done to survive the Fascist scum sucking assholes.

L O f**king L.

I’ve never been associated with Hitler before, or told that I get everything for free. A first time for everything!

PS - By networking I mean being good at my job and being a fun person to work with. Therefore, people want to work with me again! You should try it sometime.

PPS - Your games really… erm… suck for you having so much experience. Think maybe that’s why you don’t get hired?

My Games Are Not The Issue

I would rather play my games than many games that make many millions like Zynga games. So, they don’t suck as much as many. In fact name one game that has the level of action as my games do on Android that run smoother after a few minutes of play. You won’t find it. I get 60 fps on 30 dollar hardware for J2ME just try my MiniSpaceWar w/Vectors on BlackBerry AppWorld. I have several million plays of my games year in year out. I have multi-player and 3d games. My games can run on over 3 billion J2ME, Android, and J2SE devices. Can Zynga or others do that?

Not that my art and sounds couldn’t improve a bunch, but that is not related to my software development.

My Games only represent a fraction of my work:

My games are about 35k of code each except for my RTS, Multi-Player, and 3D games. I have >1,000,000 lines of other code, scripts, and configuration files. About 35% in Freeblisket/Weblisket and 45% in my game development kit so my games are just the tip of my robot army ice berg.

[Demonpants]

Zynga makes several million dollars per day on their games. And despite their CEO being a bit unethical and them having ethics issues in the past, they are a very admirable company. They started from scratch and turned into a company that likely makes more than EA and other studios. And throughout all that they’ve kept their independence and their vision. Although I don’t like their games, I’d rather be Zynga.

But I forgot, they’re “fascists.”