morre, I do understand where you’re coming from 
but we can’t deny a game that really does deserve most of the votes. in the end the contest is about what is the “best” game according to the gamers. why not vote for the best game - period?
lol @ kev
Haha. Well, judges would be ok with me… but where do we find them? How do we coordinate them? Most importantly - what voting system should they use? 
lol
Morre: Sorry if that ASCII table was to large, you can see it here as a screenshot. I am sure that you understood it already.
Enough about that now, you’ve got my opinion. I’ll lure in the background for a while now. ;D I’m sure that I won’t win which ever system of giving ratings that are used, but getting some people to rate my game would be nice. We will see what happens. 
donald - your game will rate either way, because the categorized system runs infinite (even the 2005 games will able to be voted on). so you might not see the result right away, but over time you’ll get a good idea about where it stands. but as far as the 4K winner goes, we need that answer cut and dry
Well that’s good enough for me! Also, be sure to cut and paste that table and use it as a desktop background, it took quite a while to create! ;D
But woogley, I don’t think you understand. I can’t possibly imagining games deserving most of the votes - only a highest average. See my point? With an average system, you don’t even have to push it the way donald wants if you don’t want to - it’d still be more fair
Just voting for the best game would be interesting… we’d have 3 games with lots and lots of votes, and then leaving the rest with none. That’s the way they do in the olympics and athletics championships - decide three winners, give them gold, silver and bronze, and forget about the rest. I don’t think this is what this contest is about - it’s not about winning, beating the others, it’s about showing people what you can do with 4k. The way to go is to make sure every game gets a rating - from the winner, to the game that’s in last. Granted, the one that comes in last won’t be happy, so perhaps you should exclude the statistics of the last few games or so, but I’d take it if I was last - at least I know where I came. If you just select the top 3 games, then the other developers won’t even know how well their games did.
EDIT: I agree with Donald, what I’m concerned about is mainly having my games (that aren’t the winners - I’m sure of it) get a rating, no matter if it’s good or bad. I just want the criticism. This, you can achieve with an average vote. And in 3 days, no less, just like you wanted to do with the other system. Personally, I can’t see any advantages with the top 3 system - please do explain them to me
okay, the top 3 system has this advantage: it’s FAST. though this may yield a 50%-25%-10%-1% kind of slope for the games. but it’s the straight up question “what is your top 3 favorite games?” - no need to consider categories, just what do you enjoy playing the most. period. and I think that’s pretty much what counts. sort of “I cant explain why I just love this game! I dont know what it is about it but its great!”
using the other system, yes, we will get more solid statistics rather than having 25+ games at a 1% sort of vote. but, that just isn’t doable on 72 hours. it’s 5 categories for 30+ games, at least 150 different things to decide on (assuming people will rate EVERY game. which is something you can’t guarantee in any public system)
Forgot to answer earlier:
[quote]I think what you’re trying to say is: The system wouldn’t allow you to vote on the top few games IF you haven’t voted on the one with the least votes - vote on it, give it either a good OR a bad vote, decreasing or increasing it’s average, and then you’re free to vote on the top games, and thus there’s really no restriction, just something to give the more obscure games the exposure they need. They won’t get better scores this way, just more votes (which isn’t better in an average system). Also, if you use this system, there’s no point in making the system weighted, since all games will have roughly the same amounts of votes, so it’s either weighting, or donald’s system, not both.
[/quote]
This is more or less as I meant it, except that I thought it would be based on the overall number of votes, not displaying the names of the games who have the largest amount of votes already. But I like your idea more. A variation of it would be:
You have four votes and a vote can be good or bad:
Vote 1) You have to rate the game with the least amount of votes.
Vote 2) You have to rate the game with the second least amount of votes.
Vote 3) You may vote on any game you like.
Vote 4) You may vote on any game you like.
Anyway, I’m afraid woogley has made up his mind already.
not really, I’m not even coding it til mid february anyway. for the moment I’m following the KISS principle though
Oh, but woogley, you misunderstood me again. I’m NOT saying we divide it into categories, I’m NOT saying you should decide on 150 different things. I don’t even know where you got the category idea, because I didn’t mention it… what categories were you even thinking of?
I’m suggesting a system as simple as yours, only more flexible:
- You see a game.
- You play it.
- You like it, and think, “Wow, I like it”!
- You give it a rating from 1 - 10. In this case, you give it a “10”.
This way, you can STILL pick your favorite three games, and give them a 10 - you don’t even have to vote on any other games. It’s simple, it’s fast, and it’s possible withing 72 hours. However, if you like, you have the option to vote on every other game as well… “Let’s see, let’s give this one 8… I don’t know why, but hell, I like it. Oh, this one, however, deserves no more than 2.”
Simple, fast, fair.
EDIT: The only advantage I can see with your solution is that the statistics might, if we’re very unlucky, change after 72 hours so that a new game gets the top rating. This, however, is only natural - you view things differently at different times. And, the one that won the first time obviously was a worthy winner at that time - perhaps it was more fun to begin with, but not so fun in the long run. Fine, so the contest isn’t about the long run? Big deal - you didn’t intend to consider the long run with the “top 3 favorites” anyway, did you?
- That is the best definition I’ve ever seen of “begging the question”. By that definition, you are correct. I concede the point.
As for the rest, we can argue the details of each other’s points until we’re blue in the face. What I really want to know is, what is your EXACT problem? If you don’t trust that Woogley is being truthful with us, then say so. Otherwise, I just don’t see what your issue is. He’s passing the credentials in exactly the same way each of own computers do every time we log into the site. The site can handle the multiple logins too, as I have logged in from multiple computers on several occasions.
I guess why we’re annoyed is that you’re objecting without any actual objection. Just various vague references about what might happen. Now I’ll continue to look at his security, but as it stands now I see no real security issues above and beyond those that already exist.
jbanes, have you even looked at the other posts? Only you and markus are arguing about security issue. It’s the voting system that we’re discussing
Morre, I’m fine with people voting for the game quality from 1 to 10, and I dont mind implementing it. either way though there’s a good chance there will be some games that nobody votes on.
one issue though. let’s compare Miners4K - a good game, versus Warpstar4K - not so good. Let’s say like 30 people or whatever vote somewhere between 7 and 10 and averages I duno… like 9.2 or something. but lets say only one person votes for Warpstar4K and that vote happens to be a 10.
10 > 9.2
would I consider the winner like this?
if (Warpstar4K > Miners4K) {
if (Miners4K.votes > Warpstar4K.votes) winner = Miners4K
else winner = Warpstar4K
}
Again you’re wrong. Warpstar IS a good game - I find it highly addictive
Anyway, that’s what the weighting system or donald’s system is for. You just implement either donald’s algorithm (so that all games get at least a decent amount of votes, perhaps almost equal) or the one that IMDB uses (which is server-side only, so no more work for the voters - it considers the number of votes and takes that into consideration. Also, a game has to get at least, say 10, 20, 100 (I don’t know how many it’ll be) votes to get considered into the contest, with the weighting technique that IMDB uses.)
Again, I quote IMDB:
You just apply that algorithm and hopefully it’ll all work out magically, haha
[quote=“Morre,post:73,topic:26013”]
Indeed. I’ve been keeping an eye on it, but you guys are buzzing by so fast it’s hard to keep up. So we’ve sort of ended up with two separate threads.
I have to side with Woogley on this one. The complex system that you and Donald are suggesting invites Murphy’s law. Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong. Thus the “best” system is to allow each person to vote for their favorite game. Unfortunately, it’s doubtful that single votes would give enough of a spread to declare anything more than first place. His system of voting for three options is a tried and true method used on many corporate boards for elections. For example, my condo association is incorporated, and has the shareholders - aka the owners - vote for as many candidates as there are positions. The problem is that board members are all equal at voting time. Since we want a clear winner here (instead of the three most popular), the weighting of +3, +2, and +1 make sense.
IMHO, if a simple system such as this is not welcomed by the community, then I would say that Kevglass has the right idea. Go back to using judges.
Morre: yeah but what if 100 people vote a “2” for Warpstar. and 50 people vote “8” or “9” or whatever for Miners.
though Warpstar < Miners, Warpstar.votes > Miners.vote
see that’s the concept I’m not clear on how to avoid
Then miners would win. The alghorithm takes that into consideration. The NUMBER OF VOTES do not decide the winner, but if an entry has very few votes, it’s score is slightly lowered, or something like that
lol, seems a bit complicated. I dont have a final decision yet but I can tell you Im all about keeping it simple
this vote is cut-and-dry, which game is more widely thought of as the best. I welcome a sharp slant if there is one. some games are just that good!
your averaged statistics will come in the all-the-time-running category-based voting, so you will get the criticism you want over time
Fine, but I do not think this is complicated. All the work YOU would have to do is implement a very simple maths algorithm, clearly stated in one of my earlier posts, into the script that decides who wins. All the work the viewers have to do is select their favorites, and give them a “10”. I’d say being allowed to vote freely on the games you like, and give them either positive (5+) or negative (1-5) votes, would be SIMPLER than forcing them to select three entries from a special page, and then submitting all the votes at once.