What are the viable alternatives to Sourceforge?

[gouessej]

Hi

I started using Sourceforge in 2006, mainly to host my CVS repository. I didn’t use it to host my website the very first years, I used multimania/lycos and tuxfamily. I currently use its bug tracker, my website is on it too, my Subversion repository too.

ublock blocks Sourceforge by default, I find this decision quite reasonable even though it’s unfair in my particular case as my bundles aren’t modified (yet) by Sourceforge. I know what happened to Gimp… I’d like to find a lasting solution. What are the other options?

I pay for my blog, it’s ok for me, I don’t expect anybody to work for me for free. If Sourceforge suggested me to pay 4 US dollars a month to host my project with no ad and no malware, I would accept.

Github is quite solid but there is still a corporation behind it (GitHub, Inc.), it can still modify its policy later, it’s true for Bitbucket too.

There are two viable solutions on the long term in my humble opinion:

• find an hosting solution managed by an organization in which I would have some “power”, an association, a cooperative
• self-hosting

The first solution doesn’t give me the full control of the hosting but it is less painful to migrate to. However, the only cooperative I know doesn’t provide a bug tracker, GIT, Subversion, …
https://ouvaton.coop/

The second solution would potentially give me much more control but maybe I would have to spend a lot of time to setup a server. Yunohost is installed by default on the Internet brick but it uses Nginx whereas I prefer Apache HTTP Server and it provides only Wifi, no Ethernet.

Is there anything obvious that I’m forgetting?

There are numerous open source code hosting facilities.

ourproject is managed by a non profit organization but it’s extremely slow…

[Roquen]

There’s corporations behind many useful things. Just use one (say GitHub) and if they make some policy change you don’t like…move somewhere else.

[gouessej]

Hi

@Roquen

There’s corporations behind many useful things.

There are some useful things not relying on the corporations (or only a very little) too, community-supported agriculture, the integral cooperative (thousands of members in Spain), …

@Roquen

Just use one (say GitHub) and if they make some policy change you don’t like…move somewhere else.

The website of my project has been moved from multimania/lycos to tuxfamily and then from tuxfamily to Sourceforge. I’m just fed up. Actually, Github would be an acceptable solution but moving my website every three years upsets me. That’s why I will probably not move to another source code hosting facility similar to Sourceforge even though Github doesn’t harm the projects as much as Sourceforge does (yet).

[SHC]

I used to use Google code before, but since it’s shutdown, I have been using GitHub and BitBucket. I use GitHub for any public projects and BitBucket for all the private ones (they offer free private repositories, unlimited). I feel that project discovery is more on GitHub than on BitBucket since it is more popular.

And for websites, I do like Jekyll but I don’t use GitHub Pages as they make my website code public. Instead I’m managing my own local copy (using git with BitBucket private repository) and I’d push the pages to my server through FTP.

[Roquen]

Most options are going to be much more work and most of those you’ll end up handing some for-profit money. Exceptions that come to mind are things like becoming a FSF project and hosted there or a university project.

[nsigma]

GitLab might be worth a look. Still backed by a corporation, mind you, but the code is open!

[gouessej]

@nsigma

GitLab might be worth a look. Still backed by a corporation, mind you, but the code is open!

The source code of Gitlab CE is under MIT license but Gitlab EE is proprietary. Gitweb and Gitolite with Yunohost allow to obtain something similar. It’s possible to host Gitlab CE on a server.

@Roquen

Most options are going to be much more work and most of those you’ll end up handing some for-profit money

I can get a VPN from an association that acts as a ISP. The only for-profit money will be given to the company selling the Internet brick if I choose this solution.

@Roquen

Exceptions that come to mind are things like becoming a FSF project and hosted there

I can’t as I use a license with a NC clause for the artworks.

[elect]

@hosting solution

At the moment GitHub looks the most promising. It uses git, it has a nice interface and it is fast.

It lets you host websites too.

@self-hosting

Digital Ocean, you can have set up a server in few seconds and you can also install pre-setup applications. It is cheap, used a lot (that translates in a bigger community/tutorials) and quite transparent regarding the payment.

Personally, I’d go for GH, then if you feel the needing to have more, step up on self-hosting

[Roquen]

@gouessej

@Roquen

Most options are going to be much more work and most of those you’ll end up handing some for-profit money

I can get a VPN from an association that acts as a ISP. The only for-profit money will be given to the company selling the Internet brick if I choose this solution.

That route’s going to be more work for you in the short term and a long odds gamble in the long term. Think of it this way…you if go with some mainstream solution, some for-profit is effectively paying you for the privilege to host and promote your code.

[nsigma]

@gouessej

The source code of Gitlab CE is under MIT license but Gitlab EE is proprietary. Gitweb and Gitolite with Yunohost allow to obtain something similar. It’s possible to host Gitlab CE on a server.

Yes, I know! We’re using GitLab’s free SaaS hosting for private repos in my company. What I meant was that you could get the ease of use of another SaaS provider, with the option to move to alternate / self-hosting etc. later if you feel you need to while keeping the same interface (assuming you don’t need any EE features).

[gouessej]

@Roquen

That route’s going to be more work for you in the short term and a long odds gamble in the long term.

Yes, you’re right, that’s why I’m still hesitating but I planned to move my blog to my own hardware. I can do the both at the same time. It’s politically more acceptable to me.

@Roquen

Think of it this way…you if go with some mainstream solution, some for-profit is effectively paying you for the privilege to host and promote your code.

If something comes “free of charge” from a for-profit organization, it means that I am the product or there is another way to make me or my users pay.

[nsigma]

@gouessej

If something comes “free of charge” from a for-profit organization, it means that I am the product or there is another way to make me or my users pay.

Or, there are benefits to the company of a wide user base with a small number buying support or premium services. Or, they have other for-profit services that rely on the free one. Neither of those scenarios mean that you are the product or that you or your users are paying.

[Riven]

@nsigma: indeed, once you use a service you expand their community, which is valuable in itself. you might be able to answer questions others have, or simply promote the service by sharing your link to your repository/blog, which is advertisement. if 1% of their community is willing to pay for additional services, that tiny group can create a profit for the for-profit company.

if you are unwilling to support decent for-profit companies, you can roll your own, but… you’d only be supporting different for-profit companies: vastly under utilized server-hardware potentally manufactured under harsh/toxic conditions, that waste tons of electricity (due to idling) which supports the evil utility companies that pump up oil, raise sea levels on your behalf, and start conflics in unstable regions, all with your pocket money.

on topic: github :point:

[basil]

so … we all setup SCM everywhere and save the world ?

[jonjava]

@gouessej

If something comes “free of charge” from a for-profit organization, it means that I am the product or there is another way to make me or my users pay.

Standard industry practice. So what? You have a pretty cynical view on it but in reality I’d say it’s generally more of a symbiotic relationship, not a parasitic one.

[gouessej]

@nsigma

Or, there are benefits to the company of a wide user base with a small number buying support or premium services. Or, they have other for-profit services that rely on the free one. Neither of those scenarios mean that you are the product or that you or your users are paying.

It just means that some other people pay for me, the price is hidden, I don’t expect charity from the private sector and I’m not interested in being used as a lure especially when I know that the corporation liable for the source code hosting facility can drive its conditions of use more questionable to earn more money which is a bit what happened with Sourceforge.

@Riven

@nsigma: indeed, once you use a service you expand their community, which is valuable in itself. you might be able to answer questions others have, or simply promote the service by sharing your link to your repository/blog, which is advertisement. if 1% of their community is willing to pay for additional services, that tiny group can create a profit for the for-profit company.

I agree with this part.

@Riven

if you are unwilling to support decent for-profit companies, you can roll your own, but… you’d only be supporting different for-profit companies: vastly under utilized server-hardware potentally manufactured under harsh/toxic conditions, that waste tons of electricity (due to idling) which supports the evil utility companies that pump up oil, raise sea levels on your behalf, and start conflics in unstable regions, all with your pocket money.

It’s possible to assemble an Internet brick by yourself and it’s possible to obtain products not made of coltan coming from countries in conflicts as it’s done for the Fairphone. Moreover, the Internet brick has a very low electric consumption. It’s not perfect but in my humble opinion, it’s better than using the servers of the GAFAM known to pollute a lot the main location in which they are. The fact that there is no fully satisfying solution doesn’t mean that everything is equally problematic.

@jonjava

Standard industry practice. So what? You have a pretty cynical view on it but in reality I’d say it’s generally more of a symbiotic relationship, not a parasitic one.

I know that it’s a standard practice and I’m free to decide that I don’t want to participate. I don’t think that the numerous VLC and Gimp users infected by tons of badwares see this relationship as symbiotic.

@basil

so … we all setup SCM everywhere and save the world ?

Well thought self-hosting is less resource consuming and less prone to censorship than the generalized use of centralized services controlled by the states and the imperialists. I wouldn’t say that it saves the world but it helps to have a better control. Yunohost is an excellent solution to democratize self-hosting.

[Riven]

Sourceforge used to be cool, maybe in ten years we’ll say that github/yunohost/whatever ‘used to be cool’. Who knows… we just have to accept that people change, websites/companies are taken over by greedy bastards, and… we’ll just have to jump ship every once in a while. So be it.

But again, github.

[nsigma]

@gouessej

It just means that some other people pay for me, the price is hidden, I don’t expect charity from the private sector

There’s a certain irony to you using Java (or Linux) if that bothers you!

[gouessej]

@Riven

Sourceforge used to be cool, maybe in ten years we’ll say that github/yunohost/whatever ‘used to be cool’. Who knows… we just have to accept that people change, websites/companies are taken over by greedy bastards, and… we’ll just have to jump ship every once in a while. So be it.

But again, github.

I don’t want to have to jump ship every three years. I made a backup of my Subversion repository today with rsync. I accept that people change but why would I be forced to undergo the consequences of their decisions? I would have no other choice than jumping every once in a while if I was unable to setup a server by myself.

@nsigma

There’s a certain irony to you using Java (or Linux) if that bothers you!

I have some objectives and there is the reality. I start from the reality and I reach my objectives progressively everyday. It means that currently I still have something to do and I’m not 100% consistent. I don’t see any irony. GNU Hurd isn’t ready for prime time as far as I know. I remove the states and the corporations from my paths step by step, it takes time, I can’t succeed in a few days. It’s the same for this trouble. I started using free softwares in 1999. The 2 next steps are free hardware and free bandwidth. The Internet brick uses an open board A20-OLinuXino-LIME2.

[elect]

@gouessej

I don’t want to have to jump ship every three years.

Then stay on SF, Gouessej.

I also would not like to do that every x time, it’s perfectly understandable, but life is made of compromises and priorities, if jumping the ship after three years is something you dislike more then staying on an old (objectively) platform such as SF then don’t switch.

When this will be no more true, then you will be ready to jump on a new ship