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Contests 4K Game Competition - 2008
#21

I agree, we should mimic what others are doing well (e.g. flash games).

Applets aren’t perfect (slow loading, crash-prone), but I would like to see (most/all) the games as applets eventually. Not sure about this years competition though, but definitely in any future competitions it should be a standard (debate on that welcome any day).

The problem is that, we don’t want just some games to be Applets and some games Webstartable. That will confuse the non-developer user. Either ALL games are Applets or they are Webstartables, or both!
The fact that not a single game was a Applet in last years competition is a clear indication that developers don’t bother with it (or there is some other reason). I even checked all the web pages given in the URL, some were 404’s though, but found not a single Applet. However all the games were released as Webstartables in last years competition.

So the choice is quite clear, if we have to choose between the two.

I’m sorry but I don’t think we’re going to aim for Applets this year, however you’re welcome to make a Applet of your game and put it up on your own site! Users can then choose to click on that link to open your web page if they prefer it that way. But you would still have to submit your game as webstartable to qualify, since we want a uniform behavior for the user.

I have a vision that games should be playable like the videos at Google (http://videos.google.com), you just click a (+) icon and the game screen expands down and game loads. Well, that more of a visual implementation thingy :slight_smile:

For now, the Java4K competition is still somewhat developer-oriented, but hopefully that will change in the next few months (towards user/player-oriented).

edit: @DzzD, I understand your comments regarding the popups and installation part of webstart, and I agree! However, since java4k is more developer oriented this will not be a big issue (hasn’t been in previous years).

#22

doom4 online :wink: http://dzzd.net/demo/JNLP/doom4.jnlp

EDIT:
above is just for fun… dont worry :wink:

PS: As I plan to open a game section, I am working in a way that applet may be started as smoothly as flash without hang (includig all JVM version), will try to show a sample as soon as possible.

EDIT2:
note that by simulating a click on the link above you can open this popup on a website, and make visitor confused, offcourse the splash will be replaced in such case by real elements, input and such, as “give me you password”…

#23

Can’t you make the description boxes bigger? Firefox 2 and IE 6 gives a very small block and it’s hard to type there if you haven’t typed it somewhere else before. And the box that contains the links and the login stuff is messed up on IE 6 but fine on FF2.

edit: How do I get my game description formatted? Enters don’t work and HTML is stripped.

The popup you get here is the way the forum works. Clicking on a jnlp link in a normal site will either display the standard download screen or open it directly.

#24

:slight_smile: Yea, sure. But all submissions are verified before they are public (I test the jnlp links), so there is at least some level of protection. Also, I see who submitted the game, so if it’s a name I don’t recognize and a strange looking/behaving webstart then I use my common sense and don’t let it through.

Not a big thing to worry about, but still a thought that I constantly keep back in my mind.

If you want to go 100% paranoia you can of course unplug your computer :wink:

#25

Well it pops up the game that I want to play, when I want to play, so it isn’t anything that bothers me. It would be worse it was an ad that popedup when I didn’t ask for it. This is naturally a personal preference.

It is just a cache and the webstart app/game is stored on your HD just as any flash game is stored on your HD. One is stored in the browser cache and the other in a java webstart cache. You can empty both and you can set the size of both caches. The major difference is that you can remove an individual application with webstart and that is more difficult with your browser cache. The bloat of the add/remove could be a bit of a drawback, but again, nothing that bothers me personally.

Navigate to your browser cache and dbl-click any of all the flash/shockwave files you see there and see what happens :wink: Installed there as well, just harder to start yourself than a webstart app.

Well the “Java Application Window” bar is a dead giveaway, so that is not so worrying. That and the fact that I don’t have NAV installed :). Just because someone could stab you in the eye with a fork doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t use a fork yourself (unless you are prone to accidentally stab yourself in the eye of cource). Most people posting jnlp’s here have been around in this forum, so the risk that they would be poking anyone in the eye is fairly small. :slight_smile: More likely that they will feed you good games. That said, if you stumble upon a webstart that requests rights and the certificate is unknown, then it is time to put on some protective glasses. (I better stop this analogy before it goes completely out of hand!)

Still if applets are done right, then I have nothing against them at all, especially if sun gets the browser freeze problem and milpa style applet loading works in general. If you are competing with flash sites, then you probably want to use applets rather than ws, but not what we are trying to do here. Java 6 will probably be allowed for next years compo, and better applet support should come with that, so there could definitely be a switch to applet next year, if there is a general support for that from developers.

Look forward to see your “applet smooth starter” sample. A generic thing like that is something that is needed badly. Especially if it can be “wrapped around” a normal applet. Would be really helpful in evening out the flash/java war (if we even have one, maybe create one).

#26

[quote]Navigate to your browser cache and dbl-click any of all the flash/shockwave files you see there and see what happens Installed there as well, just harder to start yourself than a webstart app.
[/quote]
:slight_smile: I have no cache on my system, freed each time I get out of browser…

[quote]…That and the fact that I don’t have NAV installed…
[/quote]
me too :wink: this is a google image I grab for this sample, I have no antivirus, just use a firewall and always online scan dangerous file and i never catch any virus since… more than 15 years (with windows :slight_smile: ), but that was just a parentesis, I would be able to show a false web site or anything else, the sample above have been made in less than 30 minutes and it is my first jnlp application :), so there is nothing serious in it, but tunning it a little will enable to “Mislead any user”, undecorating a window should not be enabled without security privilege, also I am not worry about 4k contest as I know all people are serious and also that “appel” keep an eyes on submission, so I apologize to post in this thread as it become unrelated to 4k contest but rather to jnlp browser security issue.

[quote]Look forward to see your “applet smooth starter” sample. A generic thing like that is something that is needed badly. Especially if it can be “wrapped around” a normal applet. Would be really helpful in evening out the flash/java war (if we even have one, maybe create one).
[/quote]
should be posted in “shared source code” thread in a cupple of hours :slight_smile:

does a 2 second freez is acceptable ?

#27

Very awesome new site - I like the general layout, but I don’t care much for the color scheme and font usage - it gets too high-contrast, somewhat difficult to read.

EDIT: I also have a few comments regarding the about text - nothing big, just tiny bits I’d change. I’ll try to elaborate as soon as I get the time, very busy with school right now :slight_smile:

EDIT2: Took a look at the source - oh, you’re crazy! Look at all those meta tags, I was sure it was spam! Come on, “barbie dress up game”? :>

EDIT3: Perhaps the logo should lead to “home”, just as the home link does.

#28

In regards to the applet comment… correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t their a JNLP tag to have webstart launch an applet from a page as if it was an application? that could be a temporary bridge between an actual page embedding the applets…

#29

Haha, I got that meta tag from some engine that created it for me :slight_smile:

Anyway, yes, it’s very high-contrast retro… but I will add a “softer-on-the-eyes” color scheme, so you can choose. For now, you can turn off stylesheets in firefox :slight_smile:

#30

Spingle is now submitted.

I find it pretty tricky to read my own instructions. It’d be nifty to be able to make my subcategories more clear, for example by allowing some sort of [header]header[/header]-like tag. Another thing that would be really neat to have are icons for the controls, so that mouse and keyboard input could be easily represented by a few tags showing pictures of the relevant keys. It’d make controls much more readable for the user.

EDIT:
I quote from the site: “But what’s the catch? Well, it wouldn’t be fun if there wasn’t any catch! There are limitations, and these limitations are: The game must be maximum 4KB in size (yes, that’s 4096 bytes maximum!).”
It’s two repetitions in a row. I’d shorten it to “So what’s the catch? There’s a 4Kib limit! That means a maximum of 4096 bytes.” or something along those lines (where x means underlined).

Also, though I suppose it’s not very relevant, woogley didn’t start the competition - he hosted it for three years. The contest ran for two years before that, hosted on JGO and sun’s dev forums, whatever they’re called (Sun Microsystems Java forums, I think). mlk hosted the first contest 2002-2003, and woogley took over 2004-2005 (that being the 2005 contest, not the 2004 as the site currently says).

EDIT2:
Oh, and another feature I’d like to see - sorting games by different categories (by clicking on the table headers). :slight_smile:

#31

Just a little typo there: Javak4K

The color scheme induces a kind of psychedelic glare that could be super effective in the wee hours of the morning when you’ve had too much caffeine ;).

#32

You mean this?

https://applet-launcher.dev.java.net/

#33

Thanks for the comments, I’ll try to add those features and make those fixes :slight_smile:

#34

[quote]Look forward to see your “applet smooth starter” sample. A generic thing like that is something that is needed badly. Especially if it can be “wrapped around” a normal applet. Would be really helpful in evening out the flash/java war (if we even have one, maybe create one).
[/quote]
here it is : http://www.java-gaming.org/forums/index.php?topic=17835.0

EDIT:

direct access:

layout 1 : http://demo.dzzd.net/JScripts/

layout 2 : http://demo.dzzd.net/JScripts/index2.htm

#35

Real tiny issue: The history looks better, but is still not quite accurate. It should say that woogley took over after two years (I think). In either case, the hosting on JavaUL wasn’t until 2004-2005 and the first contest ran 2002-2003, so 2003-2004 has to be in there somewhere.

#36

I guess I’ll have to join. =)

#37

Any input is welcome, I will make revisions as I learn more. I’m constantly making tiny revisions here and there, so none of the text is engraved in stone.

I better announce the winner then, competition over :wink:

Looks like we already have a few great games, going to be a good year, I’m pleasantly surprised!

#38

Right then. And the winner is Markus! Congratulations :smiley:

#39

in regards to history, see jbanes’ write-up at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_4K_Game_Programming_Contest

#40

[quote=“appel,post:37,topic:30995”]
Wow, that was easy! =D