Watchdogs

Miscellaneous Topics
#27

This is not a video games causes violence topic. It never was. However cero is right on all accounts.

When I was 11 or so I walked in when my older brother and cousin were watching one of the videos of a soldier getting decapitated with a knife. It gave me nightmares for a long time. I haven’t grown up more violent but it was not very nice and I can tell you that video games today look far more “realistic” then the pixelated video I watched.

There is a line that shouldn’t be cross in any form of “expression”. When you are getting into borderline snuff films it needs to stop. Its one thing running around blowing away people with gun and another to go into a child prostitute simulator. I want entertainment from games not porn or extremely detailed violence.

Be very mindful of what you become desensitized to or one day you will wake up watching a person getting beaten to death and realize that you are taking a video instead of helping.

Sorry for being a bit short but this is something that is very serious.

#28

I remember watching my brother play Max Payne when I was 9 or 10. The bits where his family was murdered, including his baby, and the scene in which he was dreaming or hallucinating and you had to follow the trails of blood towards a cot with the dead baby screaming. I was so aware it was just a game and had no reality to it, since it could never compare to the real situation, I honestly believe it had no effect whatsoever.

(if u disagree ure fking ded srs)

#29

People, adults, getting scared, disgusted, disturbed my movies. Some imagery can be hard to process and triggered things like nightmares or even awake nightmares like I have experienced when I was like 9 and watched those kinds of movies.
All influences: events, what people say and do, things like movies - they all have to be processed and they ALL change you; the only question is how much and if its bad.

Common scenario: Person X is afraid or doesnt like a certain type of animal, because that animal was featured in a show and did (to a kid) scary things, so even today that person just doesnt like that animal. Is that really bad ? No. But everything we see changes us, and the younger we are the more it changes us and the harder it is to comprehend and process.

In watch dogs you see some one beating a person to death with a suitcase, as the edges of the suitcase ram into his head, get read, the body twitches and bleeds out on the concrete. Something that makes and adult queasy.

#30

Sometimes I think the fact that a movie is not interactive might have more of an impact to viewers than an interactive video game. Perhaps the fact that something is obviously computer generated interactive content, controlled by a piece of plastic takes something away from the potential that one (especially a minor) perceives something as being real.
Maybe it would have made more of an impact if that Max Payne sequence was a movie with real actors?

But it’s all a grey area.
Some people are affected by certain things, others aren’t. I don’t think there’s anything you can do about that, and I don’t think video games are somehow more hurtful there than other media like movies or books.
When people start getting out of control, making some form of media the culprit is like killing the messenger. The real reasons behind such things lie much deeper than that.

We’ve probably all been traumatized to some degree when we grow up and learn about the dark side of life through movies, books, videogames or otherwise. Usually that’s not a bad thing.

#31

You’re highlighting the exact problem! When are you suggesting that people learn the difference between real life and games/movies/books? You’re implying that this isn’t something that people should know until they’re 18. Yes, a 10-year-old shouldn’t see stuff like that, but even a 10-year-old should know the difference between fiction and reality, and to some extent understand that actions have consequences, let alone a 15-year-old. If a game is enough to trigger or justify you being violent, you have much bigger issues than the fact that you play video games.

Semi-off-topic personal experience
I play a lot of “violent” FPS games. Call of Duty, Battlefield, FEAR, Borderlands… Doesn’t affect me at all. It’s just a challenge similar to any other physical sport (just with a lot less injuries and physical violence, lol), not professional simulator programs. I would never mistake it for real life. I haven’t been in a physical fight since I was 15 (I’m 21). At the same time, I can’t stand seeing people get injured. I really have to try to avoid seeing stuff on Reddit and on TV where real people get injured because that shit gives me nightmares for days. My latest failure was seeing a thread on Reddit about how much more dangerous ski jumping used to be before they started using better and safer techniques. There was this YouTube clip of people crashing and then being carried away… Shit, I had nightmares for over a week, and every time it popped up in my mind I just got chills and started sweating… Give me a ski jumping simulator and I’d have fun trying to crash into the audience, because that’d be hilarious.

#32

Getting violent is the result of long chain of events of something that went wrong.
If the only effect from seeing something disturbing you can think of is getting violent yourself, I cant help you.
Of course desensitization is a direct effect which is very bad, but not directly what I was warning about.

#33

Like you say, everyone reacts differnetly.

Whenever I hear this story I cannot help but think, with all todays violence in different media types, we are actually far less violent than we used to be. It’s human nature. People did all this stuff before we had video games and movies.

But seriously Watch Dogs, the story was so short, singular in focus and dissapointing. 20 hours? Try 7, didn’t even rush it. So many characters with absolutely no purpose who we rarely see.

MAIN STORY SPOILER BEWARE
[spoiler]Like that Lucky Quinn, we have to eventually kill him, and I wasn’t remotely interested, he and damien are sort of the two villains to go for, yet we barely see him all game. Also Clara dying, I couldn’t have cared less, she rarely did anything beyond a quick phone conversation. Looking back to the killing of say Aeries in ff7… thats how it’s done.[/spoiler]

#34

Yes in this discussion games = movies = books = actual events you witness. The brain doesnt care too much what medium is used.
Also yes we were savages in medieval and wold west times. However in like the 40s and 50s it seems like the world was much much more polite.
Maybe thats a side effect from the war.
Japan is still incredible polite - and the sales of violent games like call of duty or GTA that make tremendous money in the west are basically 0 in Japan, while they buy visual novels and RPGs and whatnot.
Just seems to me that the modern west like violence(or the display of violence) a tick too much.

#35

So yeah watchdogs, that was the topic right? Lol

I’ve been playing video games since I was 4, AFAIK it never affected my behaviour. I was (still am to a degree) quite a bad tempered person, I can easily get provoked and leather someone across the face. This has more to do with the fact I was brought up with a protective mother, dad was to busy gambling and drinking, she always taught me to stand up for myself and never let anyone walk over me. I never have.

Then again who am I to say that watching Abe walk into a mine or playing tekken had no influence on this? The brain is a very complicated piece of hardware, dangerous in the wrong hands.

#36

You can’t possibly imply that there is a relationship between violent video games and “politeness”. That’s definitely more of a cultural thing, as is their preference in games. Most gamers in Japan also play games on consoles, since the average PC is tremendously weak. That aside, have you actually played any visual novels? There are quite a few of them that are famous in Japan that have really disgusting sexual and violent content, and obviously carry an 18+ rating.

#37

MORE SPOILERS HERE:
[spoiler]
What about that choice in the end whether to kill Maurice or spare him? I think they really just throw that decision at you like you are supposed to care about what happens to him. The only real way you would know anything about him is if you listened to some of the “intercepted audio”.
[/spoiler]

#38

Trying to say that video games affect how polite our culture is, is plain ridiculous.

We (as Americans) were far more well manered back in the 40/50s because of how the parents were back then. They didn’t put up with the kind of “shit” that parents let slide today. I see my friends walk all over their parents and get whatever they want, that kind of thing just wouldn’t happen back in the day.

Not to mention our culture as a whole is far more… Open and wild. We are Americans, we won our independence and our freedom and we’ll be damned if anyone ever tried to take it from us. As a people we are just much more wild than other cultures, that’s how our nation was built. People doing crazy stuff and never giving up whilst pursuing their dream in life. I mean sure, we are definitely not the same country we were years ago. We are much more money hungry and corrupt now. But I could almost gaurentee you that if a country ever invaded us, volunteer recruits into the military would sky rocket and bands of militiamen would come out of the woodwork, guerilla attacking the hell out of the enemy because well… 'Merica.

Japan has a completely different way of life and way different morals than us, I have no idea how you could compare the two country’s “politness” based on video game playing.

#39

You guys simply never listen.

[quote]Yes in this discussion games = movies = books = actual events you witness. The brain doesnt care too much what medium is used.
[/quote]
To answer with a quote from Watch Dogs.
Everything is connected.

Everything you expose a brain, especially a young brain to compounds, and that results in a personality.

#40

Excuse me.

You are saying here that the west is far less polite than Japan because “westerners” play more violent video games than the Japanese. How was I not listening?

Yes, we have already talked about young children. It’s not ok for them to play these kinds of games because yes, they will be desensitized to this kind of stuff and that may result in them thinking its ok for violence to happen. Does it happen a lot? I don’t know. But the OP is 15. He isn’t an adult, sure, but he sure as hell probably knows that killing someone is bad. You are pretty much saying that teenagers cannot use their minds and they are helpless to the world and whatever they see will instantly change how they view the world, and that simply isn’t true. Teenagers are people too and they have learned all their life the difference between right and wrong, fiction and non-fiction. To imply they will suddenly forget all that and change the way their brain is wired is crazy.

#41

I’m sure video games are connected to our eating habits, the conflict in Syria and the severity of the consequences of the floodings in Bosnia and Serbia as well, but that doesn’t mean the connection is significant compared to other influences. Implying that young people shouldn’t play video games because it is a significant cause of them becoming impolite sounds like complete bullcrap to me.

#42

I guess you ignored my 2,000 word research paper and all my sources too.

No evidence has shown that video game or media violence has has any long term effects on anyone, including our children. The only research that has attempted to show any correlation that was “successful” was paid for by anti-violence/anti-video game interest groups and mostly all of them are not taken seriously by the psychology community. If you really read into how the research was done in these experiments, it was extremely bias. :confused:

Your example that people would whip out their phone and record someone being beaten on the street has nothing to do with video game violence, it has to do with the bystander effect. That has been a problem long before violent video games.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/bystander-effect

Not to mention that, like previously mentioned, teen violence is currently at record lows. The problem is the media wants to report every time any teen acts out anywhere.

#43

because
I never said “because”. its an example of a society that doesnt value violent entertainment as much - showing that it can be different and the crime numbers are speaking for themselves. And yes its a culture thing, but I never said video games -> society of course its the other way around. Does that mean in a violent culture you just give up and expose a kid to everything ? In the US its ok, for people in Japan it would be like “oh my” and the reason is just “well its a different culture”… wow. doesnt change how the brain works.

The “crazy” types are in a spotlight in the west for “weird japan” trope - but in fact those games are not very common there, just like all the other “crazy japan” things are not common in everyday life.
Plus I would imagine that those age rating labels are a little more respected and adhered in japan, but thats very hard to say , might be wrong.

Not video games but any work nor suited for minors. And the cause is not direct but indirect: impressions that are hard to process - nothing more nothing less.

You are talking about video games -> violence.
I am talking about any kind of impressions -> bad influence in young subconscious minds due to hard to process subject matter and imagery.
Like I said this discussion would be the same with any kind of inappropriate movie or book or song or actual real life footage.

#44

Let me bottom line this,… again.

Everything a mind is subjected to changes it. The younger a brain is the easier it is to change. Old guys dont really change anymore (on average).
If kids today play only half as much video games as I did, a sizable portion of their growing up will be video games.
Impressions that mold their young brains.

Which has nothing to do with imitating what you see on the screen.

#45

Ok, let me rephrase. Every single little thing we do ever has a mild to moderate effect on our brains. That’s called “life experience”. So yes, video games do effect our brains. Having said that;

video games are not shown to have any negative affects on our brains what so ever in any way. All modern research shows the affects video games gives us are positive, like increased hand eye coordination and enhanced complex logic and problem solving skills.

All of your examples have nothing to do with video games, they have to do with jackass teenagers/adults who weren’t raised right, or societal problems that have existed since the dawn of man.

#46

Really? Because from what I know the lower number of violent games comes more from lack of hardware. The most popular violent shooters were released on PC and Xbox, and neither of those two have a big market share in Japan. Many people were for example first exposed to shooters when Square-Enix published Call of Duty 4 on the PS3. CoD: Ghost sold 200 000 copies in Japan. If there was a significant effect on people due to those games, then Japan would be a prime example of a country where violent western video games are on the rise, but their crime rate has consistently decreased for 11 years straight and halved between 2002 and 2012.

I have never heard of shooter games being socially unacceptable in Japan. If you have any sources on that, I’d love to read them.