Ah, but I think we established it will actually hurt your game. If an experienced gamer died because of something out of his control, and he is forced to do a lot of level grinding before he can start enjoying the game again, he will probably be very frustrated and is very likely to quit playing. That is not what you want. So you can’t introduce permanent death at a whim; the core design of the game must support it.
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;D
I think the decision about permadeath is absolutely a critical decision. As mentioned above if, thru certain events, a character is forever lost to a player then all other major mechanics in the game ( character creation, capabilties of new characters, rate of progression, etc ) needs to be designed with that event in mind. If you design a system that assumes a player will have the ability to respawn in some way then you can allow for a different progression model than one that assumes players will only keep the same character for a limited duration and then either retire the character or loose it thru death. The models of character generation, progression, reward, etc are all very much dependent on factors such as the durability of characters.
I believe my yes/no magic comparison is completely relavent because, again, it is a critical aspect of game play and can dramatically tip the game balance if it is introduced later. In fact, many suggestions in this thread for allowing a game to exist without permadeath have revolved around magical / supernatural events. So by direct relationship the decision on allowing magic in a game has an immediate and direct influence on many other critical decisions ( “If we have magic, can’t we allow resurections?” ). If in some way you found that example insulting then I apologize for the misunderstanding. However, I do stand by its relavence.
The flip side of this is that its also a barrier to new players. Im trying to play GW right now but Im stuck on a few quests because I havetn figured out the right magic combination of pwoer to select and use.
I could try seraching the net or buying a Brady book, but that kind of defeats your point, right? The only skill Im really developing then is my google skils…
Jeff you poor lad, or just old I don’t know ;D
just give me a ring and I’ll walk you trough it’s not about google its a social thing, some quests require you to have some ppl in your group.
you should be able to always do pvp I’d sugjest ppl getting stuck doing that as it useally reveals your weaknesses quickly.
Me too!
The real question in my mind is: are you frustrated in your search?
Would it be more frustrated to you if you just needed to level up? (leveling up has an association with brainless monkey-work to me, but at least you can see your progress, and you know you’ll get there in the end)
I’m not going to lie – I like an easy video game. Perhaps it’s because of the inherent writer/lover of stories that I am, but I generally like the ride way more than challenge I may recieve. Parts where I die over and over really piss me off, and can get me yelling at the computer. Normally I am an incredibly mellow person, but god damn I hate repetition. Having to do an entire game over again, rather than just the level or since the last save would no doubt make me shut off the program and delete it forever. I get enough challenge in the sports that I play and life in general, video games are supposed to be a release.
But I understand where you (and many other people, my brother for example) are coming from. It’s just a different way of thinking. Therefore, I think the option should be there, rather than it neccesarily being there.
The Escape Velocity games by Ambrosia Software are a good example, if you’ve ever played (by all means DO SO ambrosiasw.com if you haven’t). It sounds a lot like the Pirates game but you are in space instead of on the sea. If you die and have bought an escape pod, you lose everything on your ship but keep all the credits (money) you had. If you don’t have an escape pod, you’re dead entirely, but can load your save. However, when you first start up the game you have the option of checking the “Strict Play” box, which makes loading a save impossible if you die, unless you had an escape pod – better for hardcore players. The escape pod vs. lifeboat question still remains, but I can at least see in a space setting that an extremely tiny escape pod would be difficult to track or sensor, and a cloaking device or something like that would be cheap over an area as small as a closet. (we do have radar resistant stealth planes in real life, remember?)
In the game I am making, an RPG, characters come and go incredibly quickly, and you can acquire absolutely anything on your team. Because of this, the game constantly autosaves, disallowing the option to go back to a past save. So it’s very probable a lot of your characters will die – permanently. We included this for largely the same reason as what you are talking about: nobody EVER uses the “retreat” option in an RPG. Ever. We want players to actually run away from battles they think they will lose, and monsters will also run away from players. Rather than the mindless “YAR! YOU RETREAT, I HIT YOU IN BACK, THEN YOU GET AWAY! YAR!” way of retreating, the party’s distance from the creature slowly increases until the chasing creature gives up. But if they are faster than you, you’re screwed, or if they have bows.
I believe you ask an incredibly valid question here, but there is no right answer for it. It all depends on balance, and what’s most fun. Realism is not always fun.