The results are IN!

[Morre]

I’m all for doing it both ways, especially since that is the original plan. I think the confusion here is mainly due to CaptainJester organizing the contest and woogley handling the results (CaptainJester said there would be judges while woogley haven’t been equally clear on this). I can’t really blame anyone for it, and it seems to me that this is just another example of what happens when things aren’t decided in advance.

I say you should do the public vote thing, but also consider having judges (since you already have the volunteers and all!).

[Guarmigue]

In my opinion judges would be more useful and would be more fair. We were all waiting for the judges’ results and commentaries and with that new system we only will have some numbers (maybe only one number? please, don’t use the YouTube system!!). Besides, when the public vote always happen that the most voted are the most played, so the last entries will have less opportunities. And I’m not going to play every game to vote…

if many people vote and you allow comments and several numbers in each game (graphics, enjoyable, game life, for instance) it may be interesting. ;D

[jojoh]

I really agree with ahristov, very well put.

This really sucks!!! >:( And one month after the compo is over and NOW we get this… It is a kick in the face to everyone participating

@woogley

as i said before, judging results will be available in the coming weeks

there’s no sense in rushing it like last year

It is a complete turnaround. Is there something else behind this? it smells…

@woogley

1. flaming. using 4 or 5 judges or whatever always starts a flamewar because SOME judges may see things differently compared to others. and certain game authors cry “no fair” and then I get flamed for it. 3 years of flaming = not good for woogley

2. judging criteria. I don’t like to establish judging criteria. it gets too technical, and sometimes a rubbish game of no replay value will get high marks for random stuff that doesn’t really matter. this year, there is no technical criteria. the public voters will simply vote for the top 5 games they like the best.

3. accuracy. does a judging panel of 5 people really reflect what an entire community may think? probably not. this year, the community decides the winners.

1, Why would you get flamed if the competition was proceed as planned??? As far as I remember there were amazingly little flaming last year, mostly congrats and friendly chatting. Not all agreed 100% with all opinions, but not even Jbanes (I think it was) complained, who got a hard hit by one of the judges. If you wanted to avoid flaming, then this is in my opinion the worst way to go.

2, How will judging criteria be different with public voting than with a panel? I agree that judging criteria should be nailed down in advance, but it worked out quite fine before. There were some active talks before the competition about the voting, but all very friendly afterwards. With public voting you also run a big risk of having people vote without having played all games.

3, Yep, I have always been pushing for more judges (that would rate all games). Still, getting someone judging and commenting on all games is better than none.

Also agree with Morre, that public voting is great. I am disappointed that it wasn’t implemented last year as we were told it would be… BUT that shouldn’t stop the judging panel!

I really like to try to understand what makes a game good or bad to someone, and “42” won’t tell me that. A great part of last years compo was the read from the judges, checking the scores and the chat afterwards. If this stands that you steal that away, then this is most likely my last year taking part in the 4K competition.

[woogley]

1, Why would you get flamed if the competition was proceed as planned???

@see my PM box

every year, regardless of what happens, that thing gets absolutely flooded with nasty messages, and I don’t have to put up with it.

[darkprophet]

Since when does voting != opinions?!

You can always post back your opinion on JGO and why you voted like that. And im sure when you submitted your game, alot of people gave you an opinion on your game…

This voting scheme is used in alot of places (www.cgarena.com for example) with prizes worth alot more than they are being given here, so its safe to say it works anad works quite well.

My 2 pence

[Riven]

@woogley

@see my PM box

every year, regardless of what happens, that thing gets absolutely flooded with nasty messages, and I don’t have to put up with it.

If you can’t (or don’t want to) deal with it: delegate, get somebody else, or make a new JGO account and ignore all PMs… just to keep your promise.

[ahristov]

@darkprophet

Since when does voting != opinions?!

You can always post back your opinion on JGO and why you voted like that. game…

Well, there you have your answer. Voting != opinions since the time when can became different from must.

And im sure when you submitted your game, alot of people gave you an opinion on your

Really? Why don’t you actually look at game submissions to see if “a lot” of people gave an opinion. In one of my games, I received 0 (zero) comments, in another - 1 comment. And I’m not the only one.

This voting scheme is used in alot of places

The question is not whether it is working or not somewhere else. The question is that for this specific contest, the rules have changed after the closing date. Prizes are irrelevant, if you read the complaints carefully. I personally never did it for any sort of prize.

[woogley]

again, the rules of not changed. if anything, you now have better odds.

the “judging panel” is a group of 5 or so VOLUNTEERS with no special profession in judging or critiquing. you basically would’ve gotten a public vote from 5 people. and if I had let that happen, again, people will cry “no fair!” and bla bla bla.

and Riven, I think people already know which user to PM, so that’s not really a solution. and I already attemtped to delegate this year.

and by the way, what promise? I made no promise. and there was no indication in the rules of how the results would be decided. I got a huge wave of “no fair!” cries in my PM last year, so I’m going with an alternate solution. it will work better in your favor, anyway. what do you really think is better… a 5-people vote, or a community vote?

[Riven]

This (previously mentioned) promise:

as i said before, judging results will be available in the coming weeks

there’s no sense in rushing it like last year

But oh well… let’s drop it here

[ahristov]

@woogley

again, the rules of not changed.
…
and by the way, what promise? I made no promise. and there was no indication in the rules of how the results would be decided.

You can spin it any way you like it, but your very own messages in this forum say otherwise. The fact that you try to spin your way out only adds insult to injury, and shows why the legalese language everyone hates exists.

what do you really think is better… a 5-people vote, or a community vote?

The time to ask such questions is certainly not now.

[CaptainJester]

Keep going and there will be no 4K contest anymore. The complaints have been lodged and now everyone keeps beating a dead horse. Whether you like it or not this is all volunteer work. Don’t try to compare how busy your life is to someone else’s. You just simply don’t know. So let the issue drop. After all Woogley has done for the contest, you need to show more respect.

[woogley]

the only people spinning words is you.

did I plan on a judging board? yes. did I guarantee it? no

in fact, you’ve never been given control of how the results were decided, yet a public vote would give you some control… yet you speak against it.

it changes no rules. it does not change the way you would’ve made your game. it gives you better odds. that’s why it’s being done this way.

@ahristov

The time to ask such questions is certainly not now.

you sir, are annoying. people like you blow things entirely out of proportion. I don’t “spin words” into anything, I’m trying to give the community a better result this year, because last year certainly wasn’t the cleanest.

I’m doing all of this in the VERY little spare time I have left, and I don’t appreciate people who shoot things down entirely just because it wasn’t going to happen the way they thought it would. AND you have to be an asshole, too? you can state your opinion, but do not accuse me of lying. my decision is not negatively affecting fairness in any way.

edit: topic locked. thank you for spoiling an otherwise enjoyable thread. PM me if you have further input, do not create a new topic.