http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/t18296.html
Uhm, wow? :-/
I haven’t seen the blog, I would like to though, however if a blog gets taken down by it’s owner like that and has caused so much fuss then it must be a political war.
What I would like to know is how the battle for the top IDEs has gone so personal and has soured relations between Sun and IBM.
Found a copy in Google cache, contact me privately for the link, I don’t want to become a catalyst to further a political war.
[quote] You can’t un-say a thing
[/quote]
You’re damn right you can’t…
Pure entertainment but I don’t think it points to Sun/IBM getting personal, just personal people getting personal… as they always do.
I don’t see a political war particularly either, if its been taken down its because Sun employees can’t be seen to be dissing their own process (which as many of the commentors point out is what the body of text leads to).
Eclipse / NetBeans - pah, here an IDEA
Kev
[quote]http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/t18296.html
Found a copy in Google cache, contact me privately for the link, I don’t want to become a catalyst to further a political war.
[/quote]
This a stupid thing to do. You start a thread, then say you won’t let other people even read WTF your thread is about. Sigh. You’re basically begging the moderator to delete your thread.
It’s gone. Google’s now got the new version.
But its ok… cause the Mods don’t do that in this forum… 
Kev
Javalobby also has a discussion on it and explains what happened a lot better than I have, hence the link.
My thread is about:
No moderator who can read English and has some common sense would delete my thread because they would have read it.
I think the key issue here is “no moderator” 
Cas 
The Eclipse/NetBeans war is very very old news.
Most of us Sun folk around here are IDE neutral and don’t make a big deal out of it. Im using both right now and I see advantages and disadvantages to both. (Feature wise so far, Im finding Eclipse honestly more complete and easier to use, BUT I find their interface horribly cramped. NB gives me a lot more room to actually work in.)
In a perfect world, IBM would have written Eclipseas pulg-ins for the existing open soruce project, Netbeans, as opposed to starting their own. That didn’t happen. There has been some pretty ligitmate bad blood about that ever since.
It was compounded by the fact that Eclipse is the SWT poster child and Sun has put a lot of hard work and effort into Swing and didn’t overly appreciate IBM confusing things with another incomaptable interface library.
As to why it all happened the way ti did, thats open to lots of supposition and I won’t speculate here.
So this war has more to do with business practices than the IDEs themselves?
I guess open source and open standards are subject to as much politics as anything else in the world.
I’ve held the view that the open source model would eliminate most of the politics in software, guess I need to change my views about this.
[quote]The Eclipse/NetBeans war is very very old news.
Most of us Sun folk around here are IDE neutral and don’t make a big deal out of it. Im using both right now and I see advantages and disadvantages to both. (Feature wise so far, Im finding Eclipse honestly more complete and easier to use, BUT I find their interface horribly cramped. NB gives me a lot more room to actually work in.)
In a perfect world, IBM would have written Eclipseas pulg-ins for the existing open soruce project, Netbeans, as opposed to starting their own. That didn’t happen. There has been some pretty ligitmate bad blood about that ever since.
It was compounded by the fact that Eclipse is the SWT poster child and Sun has put a lot of hard work and effort into Swing and didn’t overly appreciate IBM confusing things with another incomaptable interface library.
As to why it all happened the way ti did, thats open to lots of supposition and I won’t speculate here.
[/quote]
So much good has come out of the Eclipse / Netbeans war
Cas
[quote]So much good has come out of the Eclipse / Netbeans war
Cas
[/quote]
Competition is the catalyst of innovation, invention, and refining.
[quote]The Eclipse/NetBeans war is very very old news.
Most of us Sun folk around here are IDE neutral and don’t make a big deal out of it. Im using both right now and I see advantages and disadvantages to both.
[/quote]
I think most users are too - even though I’m a 100% eclipse evangelist, I have a suspicion I might be about to switch to NB, since eclipse is still failing to fix the massive problems from 12 months ago, and what I’m hearing and seeing of NB is looking tempting enough that it might be worth switching.
Personally, I have zero loyalty to an IDE these days.
I will never forget how incredibly stupidly “we can’t program for crap” NB has been since the day it was released (possibly until now…that’s what I’m yet to find out), but I’ll easily forgive and move on without a backwards glance. There never has been a valid excuse for what a stonking piece of crud it was, and I am still bitter at the time and money wasted even personally (let alone by all the contributors) trying to use it - exacerbated because it had caused the close down of other, better, projects, and there was no alternative left.
But … if it’s fixed now, then I’ll switch in the blink of an eye, and sing it’s praises loud and clear. Shrug. Loyalty, what loyalty? ;D
Then again, Eclipse is, fundamentally, a better idea. This isn’t suprising, considering how much expertise and money IBM already had int he IDE space before NB’s predecessor even started. But eclipse is now so stagnant and miserable that if NB gives it a kick up the backside, people will switch in droves, IMHO.
As noted above, competition between IBM and Sun seems - to this observer - to be the only thing that keeps java alive and kicking ass, as opposed to getting old and sluggish and sitting in a corner snoozing
This thread has a bit of the "II’ve switched IDEs! (pretty sure) " thread…
As blahblahblah has said, loyality is falling, I was fairly loyal to Eclipse for a while, but I saw a few things that NB 4.1 could do that I wanted to check out.
I switched AND it was easy. I could switch back just as easy I believe now. Switch is even to strong a word, it’s more like use…which will I use. I have to work with developers that use either so even the idea of sticking with one religously just doesn’t work anymore. "Cept for the Visual Studio people…
What is really important is what you really need. Does Eclipse provide you the features you’re looking for and does it provide you a good and functionnal UI? The same question must be asked for NB too. Me, if I have to switch to NB then it will have to provide me the very usefull refactoring features, search facilities, automatic compilation, multiple perspectives, etc… It must at the same time provide a fast and intuitive UI. Ask yourself what are your needs? Do you really need to switch your IDE? What will the other one provide you more?
Actually IMHO Open Source is WAY more political them commercial development. In fact, even the definition of the term “open source” is grounds for a political argument.
After all, to at least soem people (such as RMS) Open Source IS a political movement.