Start Fresh?

While taking a closer look at the task of porting our forum’s posts and data to Flarum, I am finding myself thinking that maybe a fresh start would be a better way to go.

By “fresh start” I mean the following:

We make the current forum “read only” and rename it to something like java-gaming-archive.org, and put the new forum on java-gaming.org.

Would it be possible, with new forum software, to link to the archive posts in searches?
Would it be possible on the current forum, to have “Start a new Topic” or “reply” send someone to the new forum?

I think it would be valuable to take the opportunity to update the categories to be more relevant to today’s Java.

I think that there have been enough changes to the language that old wikis and tutorials would benefit greatly by being updated to apply at least to Java 8 before being brought over to the new forum.

Thoughts?

Is this a discussion we already had?

3 posts were split to a new topic: Abc123

While taking a closer look at the task of porting our forum’s posts and data to Flarum, I am finding myself thinking that maybe a fresh start would be a better way to go.

By “fresh start” I mean the following:

We make the current forum “read only” and rename it to something like java-gaming-archive.org, and put the new forum on java-gaming.org.

Would it be possible, with new forum software, to link to the archive posts in searches?
Would it be possible on the current forum, to have “Start a new Topic” or “reply” send someone to the new forum?

I think it would be valuable to take the opportunity to update the categories to be more relevant to today’s Java.

I think that there have been enough changes to the language that old wikis and tutorials would benefit greatly by being updated to apply at least to Java 8 before being brought over to the new forum.

Thoughts?

Is this a discussion we already had?

Hello,

I am relatively new to this forum, but I like very much the way it is presented and organized.
Sure it is an old style forum, but java is an old style language too.
I don’t know about Flarum, but I am not sure that a port will be a gain for the site.

For me, there is nothing to change here. Only increasing the availability so that the site is always up.

Edit : So, if you want to do a “fresh start”, maybe it is the best solution, and make the present forum read-only.

How about “java-gaming-site-legacy”?
Because you guys are legend… 8)

PLEASE just archive this forum away and get a new one set up, on Linode, for $5 a month. I’ll administer and pay for it if someone else takes care of doing all the forum software and database crap.

Cas :slight_smile:

Like seriously, I can get it set up inside a day. I just need someone to definitely agree to looking after the forum part.

Cas :slight_smile:

Don’t all rush at once.

Cas :slight_smile:

You make it sound so appealing. :wink:

Would it be possible to get more of a description of what would be involved in the day-to-day? I’d like to have a clear idea of the commitment before taking it on. Am stretched thin and have to be careful.

Likewise. But essentially, I can pay for a Linode at $5/month+backup, and get MySQL sorted on it and set up Apache etc etc. and get someone SSH access to it, and it just needs someone to set up some forum software. The DNS stuff is another matter.

Cas :slight_smile:

I will run the server and bring JGO back from the ashes, but as your new overlord, I first demand that you all must bow before me and proclaim that Java2D really is better than OpenGL. Then I will consider it.

Really, though, the forums are so dead there’s almost no point in trying to start a new one. If you think the reason JGO gets zero traffic these days is because the forum software is outdated, you’re mistaken. Even if we were magically able to setup a new server and restore JGO to its glory days (in other words, infested with Minecraft kiddies), without Riven being around to fix the DNS we’d have an unofficial continuation at best.

Nice thought, but would be ultimately fruitless.

I was thinking that copying all the old content would help with SEO. Where people google all these old things and find solutions and discussions from back then.
If you want to make that separate, that’s easier but then it’s very unlikely the new forum will get any kind of traction.
But I guess the new page could integrate the backup in some way.
Its just a bunch of text posts. There is many ways of doing it.

Basically we just have to buy a domain, decide on a domain name, decide on which forum software to use.
Maybe some way to have special roles for the old jgo users with link to their posts in the archive… that one might be annoying to make.
We dont need the badges even tho they were cute. New forum might have some system, I havent looked at the latest free ones out there.
And then we have to basically declare this forum deprecated and the new one to be the official replacement, hopefully with links or redirects too.

Someone the archive should be linked I feel, since its a valuable knowledge base that draws in people who google for java questions.
Also I think very strongly that the new forum should not be about Java anymore. We all had high hopes for Java in gaming at one point, but now any of us do not use it anymore for games, but we still make games. And languages don’t matter anyway.
It should be a technology agnostic game dev forum. I feel. Otherwise the focus is too specific to a technology no one uses.

Thanks Phil and Cas for your kind efforts and offers.
I’m quite happy with the current forum. But an upgrade would be nice too if it was more readable on mobile, but that’s not a big problem, i can live with it.
Sounds like the down-time issue was just a one-off due to the Linode reset. Thanks Riven for getting it back up and running again and taking care of the site all of this time.
What are the LWJGL guys doing with their forum? Do they have problems that make them want to switch as well or are they trucking along fine?
http://forum.lwjgl.org/

The LWJGL forum is actually a busier place than this one, but as it’s almost exclusively focused on LWJGL, it isn’t the best place for discussion of any other Java game tech that’s out there.

Regarding expanding focus beyond Java… I believe the value of this forum specifically is its focus on Java and related tech. There are plenty of other forums out there that cater to general games programming - this is pretty much the only place, other than LWJGL.org, where you can get specifically Java-centric advice.

Java still genuinely has a place in desktop games development, and remains a pretty decent choice. There are excellent tools and libraries, all free, vast amounts of experience, and performance is exceptionally good, and it’s still the most popular programming language in the world. Don’t think it’s just going to vanish!

Cas :slight_smile:

[quote]Also I think very strongly that the new forum should not be about Java anymore. We all had high hopes for Java in gaming at one point, but now any of us do not use it anymore for games, but we still make games. And languages don’t matter anyway.
[/quote]
In that case, it’s name will be -gaming.org ;D

As a side note:

Should -against expectation- anybody actually happen to go through with the plan that was proposed here, maybe try to avoid putting the archived forum under a new domain, as that would contribute massively to link rot.

Instead the new forum could, for example, be put under a subdirectory of the current domain (e.g. “/forum” or whatever) and the main page of java-gaming.org could then simply get a redirect to the new homepage.

That way the new forum would not be any less available but links to threads from the current forum that were made in other places or even the forum itself would still work.

I’d like to keep it Java-centric, also.

Is Minecraft no longer Java?

I agree with @princec about there being continued interest. It may not be as popular as Unity or Unreal engines/environments, but I think Java remains a good choice in terms of starting a game from the bottom up (compared to C# or C++).

One source of newcomers not mentioned (and a slight advantage to Java over C): many, many college courses and even High School programming courses are in Java these days. And it does continue to get the highest Tioga rating (for whatever that is worth).

I DO think updating the forum would add to its popularity and to Java as a choice for game makers, if the following happens:

  • we give equal prominence to JavaFX (rather than having it as a sub-category of Java2D which makes no sense)
  • we create a category for packaging and distribution, as this is a significant issue, with possible sub-threads for Windows, Mac, Linux, but maybe also attention to matters that come up when distributing on services like itch or steam?
  • maybe also consider something for dealing with the new modularity and/or IDE’s and/or systems like ANT/MAVEN/etc. (as they relate to games & game programming architecture), or maybe a topic on new Java developments (as they keep arriving with the new update schedule)

It could also be neat to have a category devoted to “game engines” for those individuals interested exploring and learning more about game-development infrastructure.

With stuff like that more prominently visible, the site might feel more relevant to new-comers that arrive to check things out.

Having a “jam” or two might be nice, too. The 4K rule always seemed kind of stringent a requirement to me. I know others liked the challenge, but I worry more about speed of development and making something that looks and plays well, and not so much getting something to work in such a small code base. Besides, if we are mostly going to be packaging JVM’s with games via, JLINK, adding 4K to a code base of, say, a 75MB JVM is kind of ¯_(ツ)_/¯.

Hand-wavy things! Never mind all that. Shall we make it happen?
Sum total outlay for me for one month will be $5. I think I can afford it. Somebody sort the domains.

Cas :slight_smile:

I really don’t know much about DNS.

We have a domain now, called java-gaming.org, right?
Who is currently hosting? Who is paying for it? (Is there actual revenue coming in from any aspect of this site?)

My experience is limited to paying a monthly fee to startlogic and they host my primitive web site, where I don’t know if I could install something like Flarum if I wanted to. All I do there is html/css/js. I’ve dabbled with servers on my laptop (java-enterprise, mysql) but I’ve never tried being an internet host with them.

If this forum were moved to java-gaming.org/jgo-legacy or java-gaming.org/jgo-archive, and a new forum started at java-gaming.org with slightly revised topics, perhaps using Flarum, and with lots of references back and forth between the two, would that work?

That is basically what @Drenius suggested, right?

:clue:

[quote]Linode
[/quote]
I’m currently using a VPS for Teamspeak and my toy website, specs are here: Contabo VPS S SSD

This is definitely more value than Linode, i could successfully run a Minecraft server on this thing, which was previously not really possible with other 5$ VPSes like Digital Ocean because they were lacking the horsepower.

Downsides are 100 MBytes/s disk transfer speed-cap despite using an SSD, only 200 MBit/s networking (but no data cap!) and a more lenient up-time policy (better in practice of course). For a few dollars more you can get even better specs in terms of ram, cpu and networking. Another downside is that there are no automatic VM backups available, only snapshots saved on the same host machine or an external ftp backup space (monthly fee).

They use tower cases and desktop/workstation-hardware to achieve this price point as far as i know: Contabo Servers

tl;dr: Don’t waste your money on an expensive and slightly more reliable but completely under-specced vps for this hobby forum.