Skill games

Business and Project Management Discussions
#1

Hello everyone!

I’m looking for an area in the games market, in which there is room for a browser based 3D car racing game with relatively realistic physics (written in Java of course). I was recently advised to take a closer look at the “skill games” sector. I have been to some websites, that host this type of games, so I know the official information, but I was wondering whether some of you guys had any experience with developing skill games. Is there any legal risk involved? Are such games regarded as gambling? Are there any special design requirements that I should be aware of?

Cheers,
Grzegorz

[EDIT] By “skill games” I mean games played online against a human opponent for cash (http://www.skillgames.net/).

#2

Pretty much everyone here has probably developed a “skill” game. In my company right now we are making a “twitch” game, as in you’ve got to press the buttons very quickly and skillfully and it’s all about timing, sort of like the old arcade games.

There is no specific legal risk unless your skill game involves shooting people or raping or something like that… which assumedly you won’t have unless you’re putting your car engine in a GTA clone. I definitely don’t think people regard these games as gambling at all, unless you are, of course, gambling - giving people monetary rewards for taking risk. Even if you did that though I think it would be pretty difficult for people to see it as gambling.

I think the only design requirement is the difficulty curve. It’s got to start relatively easy so that people can get the hang of the controls, and then it’s got to get progressively more difficult to match the player’s improving skill level. Also I think it’s good to have short levels or save points scattered along the way or something of that nature so that when the player messes up they can easily restart and they only lose a few seconds of their time. Part of a skill game is losing frequently and having to try 10+ times to win a level (at least at the higher levels), but not having to redo a bunch of stuff along the way.

#3

Thanks Demonpants.

I think, I should have made it more clear, what I mean by “skill games”. By “skill games” I mean games played online against a human opponent for cash (http://www.skillgames.net/). This is why I asked about legal issues and whether or not this can be regarded as gambling.

#4

I work as a skill game developer. I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.

Skill gaming, as far as I know, is not considered gambling in most sane countries. There are exceptions, though.
In some places, it becomes gambling if your game even mentions playing cards. In others, you can get away with calling poker a skill game.

#5

[quote=“Markus_Persson,post:4,topic:32874”]
Do you happen to know if the US qualifies as “sane” under these terms? Because most of its views on gambling tend to strike me as anything but…

You gotta love the US view that to play poker for money or to bet on sports is a crime, but to “invest” in, say, an S&P index fund is considered good old conservative money management. Yeesh…

#6

I think it varies from state to state, unfortunately. But keep in mind that I really have no idea what I’m talking about. :wink:

#7

As far as I know most of these sorts of games are run from foreign countries, especially ones based on traditional casino-type games. But you can be sneaky and do things like have people play for “points” and then charge people for packs of points. That sort of thing is frequently done in the states.

#8

Me and some fellow java delopers tried this once, with a games portal (see sig). You could compete in cash competitions in return for a micro payment (sms, pay phone or paypal). This is legal in most countries / states, as long as you make sure no chance / luck is involved. For example, in an arkanoid type of game, the powerups that you get after destroying a brick should be the same for all payers competing in that same competition, so I ended up calculating all random events based on an random seed, which could be feed to a competition. Still, there are some states where this is illegal, this is a snippet from the conditions and terms we made back then:

“Player’s that reside in one of the following US states are not eligible to participate in prize competitions: Alaska, Iowa, Arizona, Louisiana, Arkansas, Maryland, Connecticut, Missouri, Delaware, South Dakota, Florida, Tennessee, Illinois, Vermont”

But note this list is probably not up to date, you should get some legal advice first, or only open it for countries you do know it’s legal.

#9

Thanks guys. I think I should rather find an established skill games site like WorldWinner.com, King.com, or GameDuell.com, instead of trying to create one myself. Did any of you had any experience with any of these sites?

#10

Well, yeah, I work at king.com. =)

#11

Ha! Then you are a valuable source of information Markus_Persson :slight_smile:

Do you write games for them? What are the conditions? Do they buy existing online games and adapt them to “skill games” needs, or do they order complete skill games from various development studios?

#12

I work as a game developer, yes.
Conditions? I get a salary, they tell me what to make, I make it.
We develop almost all skill games inhouse.

#13

Thanks Markus. Do you know whether other large skill game sites develop their games on their own?

#14

I have no idea, no. Sorry. =)

#15

I think you know better then me…