I’d be really careful about this if I were you. Checkpoints in an action game are one thing, but messing with peoples ability to save in a single-player strategy game is not usually something people are going to accept. If you want permanent consequences to actions, simply making the game world persistent with no explicit save mechanic whatsoever might be preferable to erecting gimmicky barriers around save/load mechanisms.
I appreciate the warning, though I’ve generally found background auto-saving to be too punishing and arbitrary save/load options too forgiving, so I thought this might be interesting as a middle ground. Are you aware of other citybuilder/strategy titles I could look at that attempted this? Not trying to second-guess, or anything, just curious.
EDIT: Okay, how’s about this for a tweaked alternative: by default, the game uses the automatic-save-on-quit-persistent-world approach. However, the player can spend psi points/mana/spice capsules/whatever to create an explicit ‘save point’, and then gets a minute or two of subsequent play before their ‘precognitive vision’ fails, and they have to either save their progress (walk the path) or revert to the last save (deny the vision.)
It would work in basically the same way, except that the player controls when the system kicks in. Does that sound any better?
That actually sounds like a pretty cool idea. I’ve had an idea for a “sim-roguelike” with multiple factions where one of the factions has time control powers (outright magic in this case). Mind if I use the idea too? I’m sure your game will be out years before mine 
That actually sounds like a pretty cool idea. I’ve had an idea for a “sim-roguelike” with multiple factions where one of the factions has time control powers (outright magic in this case). Mind if I use the idea too? I’m sure your game will be out years before mine
Sure, by all means. I’m probably getting a little ahead of myself in any case- I’ll want to have the more mundane economic, combat and diplomacy systems up and running first before I work on anything fancier, and that’s a ways off.
Sure, by all means. I’m probably getting a little ahead of myself in any case- I’ll want to have the more mundane economic, combat and diplomacy systems up and running first before I work on anything fancier, and that’s a ways off.
That sounds like a very cool idea. I think having controll over saving is good, and limmiting that even better as It createss tension and balance if done properly. Just being able to hit save at any oppertnity is very safe. Having limited save functionality makes you consider your actions more. The idea of exploring multiple futures is very interesting.
The only issues with save on quit is if the game crashes at anypoint, and also this can be exploited by just quiting and reloading whenever you want - you would not be able to acount for that.
I like your idea of giving the player psi points to spend. Then you are invoving them in that process of saving, and they have to use it as best they can rather than something to exploit.
That sounds like a very cool idea. I think having controll over saving is good, and limmiting that even better as It createss tension and balance if done properly. Just being able to hit save at any oppertnity is very safe. Having limited save functionality makes you consider your actions more. The idea of exploring multiple futures is very interesting.
The only issues with save on quit is if the game crashes at anypoint, and also this can be exploited by just quiting and reloading whenever you want - you would not be able to acount for that.
I like your idea of giving the player psi points to spend. Then you are invoving them in that process of saving, and they have to use it as best they can rather than something to exploit.
Yeah- this is the sort of thing that I was very prone to doing in Diablo 2 (not so much in Dwarf Fortress, but people do resort to it.) I wanted the ability to experiment with various approaches to be built into the game, without permitting victory-through-repetition. I’m glad you like the idea in any case.
(The other question would be how you’d make this work in MP- particularly deathmatch multiplayer. I’m a long way from actually implementing that, of course…)
Oh, in other news- I know I said I was taking some time off, but I’ve re-implementing mining and added terrain generation systems for rock outcrops and mineral deposits. You can see some preliminary results here and here. (And, of course, up on github.)
Yeah- this is the sort of thing that I was very prone to doing in Diablo 2 (not so much in Dwarf Fortress, but people do resort to it.) I wanted the ability to experiment with various approaches to be built into the game, without permitting victory-through-repetition. I’m glad you like the idea in any case.
(The other question would be how you’d make this work in MP- particularly deathmatch multiplayer. I’m a long way from actually implementing that, of course…)
Oh, in other news- I know I said I was taking some time off, but I’ve re-implementing mining and added terrain generation systems for rock outcrops and mineral deposits. You can see some preliminary results here and here. (And, of course, up on github.)
I don’t think you should outright simulate every single micro settlement. You would need a way of approximating that is very simple, for example there are X banks so it generates X gold per turn. And run the more complex sim each time you are about to zoom in on a settlement in order to update it. It doesn’t need to exist until a user views it.
I don’t think you should outright simulate every single micro settlement. You would need a way of approximating that is very simple, for example there are X banks so it generates X gold per turn. And run the more complex sim each time you are about to zoom in on a settlement in order to update it. It doesn’t need to exist until a user views it.
Holy crap. This has been said a lot in this thread but - I am loving that art, that’s amazing.
The planets kind of remind me of the planets system from Endless Space, you played that?
Keep up this incredible work, man. Well done.
Holy crap. This has been said a lot in this thread but - I am loving that art, that’s amazing.
The planets kind of remind me of the planets system from Endless Space, you played that?
Keep up this incredible work, man. Well done.
[quote=“Exception_e,post:93,topic:37009”]
Thanks. I’ve heard of Endless Space, but haven’t actually played, though I do find the content generation rather interesting. Yet another item on my todo list is trying to work out some kind of planetary-terraforming system along those lines…
I kind of feel like I’m belabouring a point here, but to go back to my previous example, if I go away from Pavonis Sector for a couple of years, which had, say, 5000 citizens to begin with, then come back, I have to find a way to pretty quickly account for hundreds or thousands of individual citizens being born, dying, migrating in or out, finding accomodation and jobs, and/or gaining skills, equipment and relationships, plus the effects of construction, demolition and/or terraforming under the interim management. Otherwise, the settlement won’t look like it’s undergone a convincing evolution in the meantime.
I’m not 100% sure that I know how to make AI do a passable job at these problems at all, let alone how to do it so efficiently that it all fits into the time taken for a loading screen. (I mean, part of the reason why I’m letting the player control things like building placement or recruitment strategy is because these decisions are not trivial to automate.)
In other news: I’ve spent several days on a largely-futile effort to unify the path-caching system with the automatic-paving due to what I thought were significant structural similarities, which actually wound up substantially complicating both systems. It appears premature refactoring is the root of all evil. Well, at least the obligatory separate rewrite of each seems to have cleared up a few code warts, so it’s not a total loss.
Visual diagnostics are fun!
[quote=“Exception_e”]
Thanks. I’ve heard of Endless Space, but haven’t actually played, though I do find the content generation rather interesting. Yet another item on my todo list is trying to work out some kind of planetary-terraforming system along those lines…
I kind of feel like I’m belabouring a point here, but to go back to my previous example, if I go away from Pavonis Sector for a couple of years, which had, say, 5000 citizens to begin with, then come back, I have to find a way to pretty quickly account for hundreds or thousands of individual citizens being born, dying, migrating in or out, finding accomodation and jobs, and/or gaining skills, equipment and relationships, plus the effects of construction, demolition and/or terraforming under the interim management. Otherwise, the settlement won’t look like it’s undergone a convincing evolution in the meantime.
I’m not 100% sure that I know how to make AI do a passable job at these problems at all, let alone how to do it so efficiently that it all fits into the time taken for a loading screen. (I mean, part of the reason why I’m letting the player control things like building placement or recruitment strategy is because these decisions are not trivial to automate.)
In other news: I’ve spent several days on a largely-futile effort to unify the path-caching system with the automatic-paving due to what I thought were significant structural similarities, which actually wound up substantially complicating both systems. It appears premature refactoring is the root of all evil. Well, at least the obligatory separate rewrite of each seems to have cleared up a few code warts, so it’s not a total loss.
Visual diagnostics are fun!
[quote=“Morgan_Allen,post:95,topic:37009”]
Though, now that I think of it, if it is possible to automate this sort of thing at all, the algorithm would have to be pretty damn processor-hungry to eat up more than a few seconds’ worth of time on modern machines. I keep forgetting we have 2-GHz CPUs these days. Hmm. That still leaves the problem of writing these algorithms in the first place, but I’ll at least bear it in mind as a long-term option to look into.
One other option that’s occurred to me as possible method for influencing the large-scale would be to appoint specific citizens as holders of estates outside the main map, within the traditional feudal-hierarchy system. That way, the influence you have within the game map with respect to the rest of the planet (or setting) would be a little like the relation of Geneva to the rest of the EU (or world.) You’d appoint governors for other sectors and be responsible for entertaining and/or finagling them when they come to visit. In that way, maybe the player wouldn’t need to actually go visit other sectors in order to influence their development.
[quote=“Morgan_Allen”]
Though, now that I think of it, if it is possible to automate this sort of thing at all, the algorithm would have to be pretty damn processor-hungry to eat up more than a few seconds’ worth of time on modern machines. I keep forgetting we have 2-GHz CPUs these days. Hmm. That still leaves the problem of writing these algorithms in the first place, but I’ll at least bear it in mind as a long-term option to look into.
One other option that’s occurred to me as possible method for influencing the large-scale would be to appoint specific citizens as holders of estates outside the main map, within the traditional feudal-hierarchy system. That way, the influence you have within the game map with respect to the rest of the planet (or setting) would be a little like the relation of Geneva to the rest of the EU (or world.) You’d appoint governors for other sectors and be responsible for entertaining and/or finagling them when they come to visit. In that way, maybe the player wouldn’t need to actually go visit other sectors in order to influence their development.
I think having a political system that you must integrate with in some way will make the area you control feel part of a whole. Being able to choose leaders of other sectors would have a substantial impact on the game. But there are times when uprising in a specific area may cause some destabilisation in the world as a whole and you would have to respond to this, perhaps by allying with other sectors. This need not be about war or dictatorship, but more a more moral crisis such as disasters or famine.
Like you say having to keep the other sectors happy would be a juggling act, and even more so if the other sectors are in conflict?
It all sounds very detailed and interesting. Could you simulate polls, and election of other sector officials? These type of calculations, would not execute all the time, or perhaps on a low priority thread?
I think having a political system that you must integrate with in some way will make the area you control feel part of a whole. Being able to choose leaders of other sectors would have a substantial impact on the game. But there are times when uprising in a specific area may cause some destabilisation in the world as a whole and you would have to respond to this, perhaps by allying with other sectors. This need not be about war or dictatorship, but more a more moral crisis such as disasters or famine.
Like you say having to keep the other sectors happy would be a juggling act, and even more so if the other sectors are in conflict?
It all sounds very detailed and interesting. Could you simulate polls, and election of other sector officials? These type of calculations, would not execute all the time, or perhaps on a low priority thread?