Seems fair enough, though Sun already provides the all specs, and you can at least look at the code - though that is more of a problem if you intend to write new code and say it has nothing to do with Sun’s code.
I’m actually all for it, so long as Sun, or some other entity not likely to be influenced by the evil empire, maintains control over what is and isn’t “Java”.
[quote]I’m actually all for it, so long as Sun, or some other entity not likely to be influenced by the evil empire, maintains control over what is and isn’t “Java”.
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The probability that such a huge programming language project like Java will be forked is very low and if it happens, then there is possibly a good reason to do it. The chance that it will develop in a direction, which doesn’t fit the needs of the users anymore, is even lower. The dual licensing approach mentioned in one of the articles above can make it very difficult for the “evil empire” to influence Java negatively, so this may be a good choice to be on the safe side, although it has some drawbacks.
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1539668,00.asp
Plus Rick Ross (Javalobby guy) actually says something I agree with. Which is incredible in itself.
Sun to Meet IBM Over Open-Source Java (JasonB link)
In response to an open letter from IBM asking Sun Microsystems Inc. to join the company in developing an open-source version of Java, Sun plans to meet with IBM to discuss the issue, Sun sources said.
I have to say that .Net is the best thing to happen to Java. (actually my team has been saying this for a while :-))
[quote]I have to say that .Net is the best thing to happen to Java. (actually my team has been saying this for a while :-))
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Couldn’t agree more. Nothing like a bit of competition from the boogie-man to wake people up and knock 'em out of a comfortable rut.
[quote]Interesting, so now we go back to the point that Jeff brought up. Why doesn’t IBM open source THEIR implementation if they think it is such a great idea??? (I still wonder if they have some Sun code in their implementation and are therefore covered by terms of Sun’s license.)
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Are they really at liberty to do this?
I know for example that blackdown is not allowed to open the source to their implementation because it shares Sun code.
If this is the same case with IBM, then I’d understand why they can not open source Java.
I feel however that Java should be opened op to the JCP and that one sanctioned implementation comes from that which may be called Java.
This will prevent fragmenting.
Now if Sun could get rid of some of their strict licences on their JRE (so that Linux distro’s and the like may distribute it) we would be all set 
Just blurting things out loud
[quote]I feel however that Java should be opened op to the JCP and that one sanctioned implementation comes from that which may be called Java.
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Isn’t that exactly how it is now?
Here’s again a statement, which says that IBM can’t open source their Java implementation:
http://www.ciol.com/content/news/2004/104030207.asp
Are there any news about the discussions between Sun and IBM?
Yes and no.
The JSR does usualy create the standards and a reference implementation, but after that it’s on Sun to implement this into the VM.
And all the other vendors will do the same.
Now I’m sure you are aware that IBM has loads of programmers working on Java as it is.
If they could merge their codebases and work together with the JCP lots of interest groups would then be able to work on the same VM with company’s only doing ports to ensure the VM runs on their hardware/Os.
Nothing should go into the official VM without the JCP behind it.
I’d be interested in how this works out, really
IBM is still in contact with Sun:
http://www.idg.com.sg/idgwww.nsf/0/896C05A1D21D238648256E51000A3708?OpenDocument
I think we can expect more news within the next two weeks.
Well, I’m definetly in favour
Sun’s Schwartz always comes up with the forking argument. He says there are so many Linux distributions and he doesn’t want to have different Java versions. This argument doesn’t make much sense, because you cannot compare a Linux distribution with a certain piece of software.
I’d like to see Mono getting more popular. It has GTK bindings and theoretically significant portions of the Gnome desktop could be written in Mono within the next years. And Sun is a supporter of Gnome …
[quote]Sun’s Schwartz always comes up with the forking argument. He says there are so many Linux distributions and he doesn’t want to have different Java versions. This argument doesn’t make much sense, because you cannot compare a Linux distribution with a certain piece of software.
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I think you can. There are all sorts of differences between Linux distros that make no sense at all - except to make things difficult for end users (e.g. different ‘standard’ locations for config files, libraries, applications, etc.). If every individual is allowed to do things their way forking is inevitable and the general end user suffers.
But with the proper license and regulatory body you would think that Java could be open source. I personally don’t think there is that much to gain over the fairly open JCP and Sun source license that we have now. There is likely something to gain… but probably a lot less than people think.
You are telling your opinion why you think it’s not good to have several Linux distributions. This doesn’t explain why a comparision between one piece of software (Java) and thousands of packages plus install/configuration tools (a distribution) makes sense.
It’s a non argument anyway. I doubt very much that statement has anything to do with the reasons Schwartz isn’t keen. It’s just a quick and easy sound bite.
Anyone with less than half a brain can see that open sourcing java does not mean fragmentation assuming there is proper regulation/controls in place. He’s just telling reporters what they want to hear, so he doesn’t have to go into the real reasons.
You’re probably right.
However the articles I read quote Schwartz and it’s always the same argument (the words change, but the meaning remains the same). Here are two new ones:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/03/16/HNsunexecsonjava_1.html
It would suck for Sun if Java did get “forked”.
Then people might choose the better solution ??? ???
What is “the better solution”?