Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

JEE isn’t going anywhere, let’s not forget that Oracle has a lot of business there. And also let’s not forget that this is about Android/Dalvik.
I’m concerned too, but I think a lot of people here are waaaay too panicy about the whole thing.

Indeed. We have to put this in perspective: this isn’t actually about Java at all. Although I think Google have been a bit cheeky, they have a very good case. This is why the suit is about patents, not about the use of Java.

Cas :slight_smile:

FYI


Oracle’s side:

http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/why-oracle-was-right-sue-google-392-1

well its nice to see google spinning this to say that Oracle is suing not only them but also the open source community.

If Oracle really goes through with this and wins, who knows who they will go after next.
The ref to SCO was quite fitting.

But you can rest assured, Java will die if they do win. And if they do not, Java is still threatened.

I’d really like to see what the developer base thinks about this. Does this already effect them (i.e. bad publicity for Java). Do they think it will?
Let’s forget about facts or whatnot, this is about emotions and they drive us.

To me it looks like Google is depending a bit too much on their ‘coolness factor’ compared to Oracle’s stiff corporate image.

As far as emotions go, I think everyone is over reacting. Oracle won’t necessarily kill Java (they might, they’ve been silent and somewhat inept, but they might also have a good turn around), but fear of them killing java certainly will.

Also, IMO if Oracle does win, it could mean good things for Java. Right now, Oracle is targeting Google’s Android, which isn’t that big of market share of Java programs out there. Any change to Android’s programming language wouldn’t kill Java. If Oracle wins, they get more revenue which they very well could put back into Java.

Now all of this is optimistic (and potentially naive) but I think it’s useful to realize that legal battles between heavy hitters doesn’t necessarily mean bad things.

+1

I actually think Dalvik/Android sucks. It should have had a proper J2SE stack, end of. Then it would at least have been pretty fast from the outset.

Cas :slight_smile:

With 64mb for everything? Dalvik was designed for a low memory footprint and it was a complete success in that regard.

J2SE wouldn’t have worked. Well, today it’s perhaps an option. Now that there are 256-512mb of RAM or even more.

I agree with you and I’m not motivated, I don’t want to code on Android. Things that are usually fast on J2SE are slow on Android :frowning: (getters, setters, etc…). I don’t want a fake renamed J2SE on mobiles, I want a real J2SE-scale JVM with a good JIT compiler and an OpenGL access with the same OpenGL binding that I use on a desktop computer.

“J2SE Embedded” is well designed for a low memory footprint (it requires only 32 MB).

J2SE on phones doesn’t really make much sense. I mean, Swing on a phone? CORBA anyone?
The only problem with Android is the Dalvik VM pre-2.1, in 2.2 it’s already much better (still not perfect, but really better).

When I say J2SE you know I really mean “All the core stuff and the natty JVM, without AWT and Swing and other stuff wot doesn’t make sense on a phone” :wink:

Cas :slight_smile:

Of course, what you mean is something like HotSpot :slight_smile:

OpenJDK and Zero and Shark maybe.

Cas :slight_smile:

Ok some things could be removed but it would be fine to be able to use exactly the same libraries on desktop computers and on mobiles without a lot of painful modifications, without needing an explicit port to Android except for features that really depend on specific features of such a phone (multi-touch screen, trackball).

What painful modifications are you thinking of? My experience so far is that porting to Android is really quite straightforward and I even kind of like how some of the specific android stuff is designed.
Even OpenGL ES access is pretty similar to LWJGL and doesn’t require much porting effort.

In my opinion it’s just runtime JVM performance that needs improvement (especially the GC). J2SE in itself is not really a guarantee for a better JVM, especially on a phone.

The whole fact it needs “porting” is a big PITA if you ask me.

Cas :slight_smile:

A pain? yes, neccesary? yes (for the moment atleast). because there are things on the droid that work differently, such as touch, and trackball.