Blame the cell phone manufacturers and carriers on this. So. Much. Hair. Pulling.
Out of curiosity, has this move by Oracle scared anyone away from using Java for their games anymore?
It would be braindead to do so, at this moment. Then again, how many people actually use Java for their commercial games? Very few. Anything Oracle does that screws up clientside tech, will have negligible impact. If you control the env. on the desktop (companies, or embedded JRE) then just keep using 6u21 for eternity.
I have serious regrets betting on applets, but right now it’s the only way to get “full-access” to hardware in a web-browser. I think it’s an excellent technology for distributing games on the web. Too bad it stagnated under Sun’s leadership, and probably even worse under Oracle’s.
I don’t know if it’s an omen, but I just recently ordered “The D programming language”. Not exactly an alternative though and I love my Scala. :’(
Offtopic:
You might read up on Go too. From the YouTube videos on it it seems pretty thought through.
Go is interesting, but horribly crippled right now. For instance there isn’t even a proper windows build yet, so it only really works on Linux (and Mac is completely unsupported). This isn’t really surprising given that google’s focus for it is high-performance server software.
D is equally interesting, but has never reached mainstream appeal and so the whole toolchain is still pretty weak, despite it being quite an old language. Libraries are hard to come by as well.
IMHO your best alternative for a high-level, cross-platform setup is a modern scripting language (like python or ruby) on top of a small C or C++ core.
I think I’ll second what Orangy says… I think Python is my next stop after Java (with something like Panda3D on the backend).
Uggh, compared to Java python is just an exercise in a different kind of pain. It feels designed for easy scripting but the lack of static typing makes it so hard to easily build a large project. Sure there are ways around it, but to me Java has so many good things going for it that unless Oracle makes the language a living hell, I’ll tolerate a little political money-grubbing bullshit.
In that leaked memo:
Perhaps i’m just being picky, but that statement is just wrong… it’s a 150% growth potencial within the existing customer base.
Or do upper management measure percentages & growth differently to normal people?
I’m following the happenings around Go, i do like some of its concepts, but don’t like others, its a bit “dirty” language like C is, not as strict and clean like Java. And i’m starting to dislike Scala more and more. Its not just a better Java, but a syntactically oversize Java. D is still the best Java/C++ mix, but a bit quiet lately.
As I mentioned last time this came up, I’d rather go with JavaScript instead of Python. It’s faster (than Python, Ruby, PHP, Lua, etc.), better documented, and imo it’s a lot nicer to work with.
V8 (Chrome’s engine) is BSD licensed and only about 1.5-2.5mb in size (depends on the platform - it’s currently about 1.5mb on Windows).
Google CEO Eric Schmidt was the Java product manager at Sun in the 90’s so surely they were aware of these issues. The patent suit was a surprise to me, I expected Oracle to sue Google for the same reason Sun sued MS: not distributing complete, compliant version of Java and/or extending it.
I also wasn’t aware that Google was licensing Android to all these phone manufacturers. If that’s the case, and Google is making money on Sun/Java IP via Andoid/Dalvik, I see no real reason why Oracle shouldn’t be paid for the Java IP. Now, are the patents valid? I tend to not think so. It would be great for one of these patent cases go all the way to the supreme court, and not settled in arbitration so no one knows what happened. It would be great to get some of these crap patents thrown out.
Go is interesting, D is interesting (there’s a port of SWT to D), but I think right now, Qt is the only complete platform of libraries comparable to Java/.NET, so either Qt/C++ or PyQt are the best way forward.
And hey if nothing else, there’s always Mono…
I also wasn’t aware that Google was licensing Android to all these phone manufacturers.
They aren’t. It’s Apache/GPL.
Not games, but I professionally do work with Java based systems (JBoss et al) and this is just another stone in the hands of people already looking to go Taliban on Java.
If it is Oracle’s goal to totally scare away everyone from Java, they are doing a really nice job.
Seriously, what are they thinking? Does no one at Oracle have a flipping idea what is going on or is Oracle only made up of clueless suits?
Here is a clue Oracle:
The people reading such news are the same people who use Java.
The devs. Not the suits. Not the managers.
And if they see Oracle trying to pull a M$, what do you think they will think?
Speaking of M$. Does this also lay the typical pro-C# arguments, about how M$ is cool because it has opened up C# and whatnot, to rest?
It’s highly unlikely my next game will be written in Java.
Java is a wonderful language, and when Sun was in charge there were some people working on trying to keep it viable for gaming (chrism). Sure, sun was slow and strange, but at least there was some kind of effort. I spoke with Sun directly several times about the games I made, and that made me feel like the platform I was trusting my game in would last for many years.
Oracle hasn’t contacted me once, despite Minecraft being something of a killer app at this point, and they seem to have no reason at all to keep client side java alive, as there really honestly is no money in it for them. Adding to this that Larry Ellison is BFF with Steve Jobs who recently took a huge plunge into the greedy-go-nuts pool and tries to kill Flash (which does what client-side java does, more or less), and I think the future is mighty bleak.
Sure, it might be kinda possible to fork Java (not so certain because of the patents…), but a forked java would be a much, MUCH smaller platform as almost nobody would have it installed.
I wouldn’t throw java overboard so quickly because of some lawsuit. I’d say such patent lawsuits are business as usual.
Yes, I’m also concerned, and I’m no fan of Larry Ellison and Steve Jobs either, but them rubbing eachothers backs won’t keep me from doing what I’m doing now. For me, java is still the best technology for what I want to achieve.
The only reason for me to jump ship to other technology would be because I found something better, not because I let some political bullshit rule my decisions.
[quote]Does this also lay the typical pro-C# arguments, about how M$ is cool because it has opened up C# and whatnot, to rest?
[/quote]
I was surprised about the number of .NET zealots that wasted no time into pointing out how superior C# is and how Android should go away from java and go for C# instead.
Time has changed. Oracle has contacted me 3 times (whereas I have created no killer application), a French manager even gave me his phone number. I won’t leave the boat now and I don’t understand pessimistic things said here. What’s wrong? Java works, it could be better but it still works. What has become the Java Store?
For someone like myself and my company (and others) who has invested a lot of time and thus money into Java, you have to take these risks seriously.
After these steps, who knows what Oracle will pull next. And their friendship with Apple is NOT a good thing imho. Might as well have married M$.
I just want to know if the platform I am working on has a future or not.
The thing that made Java so great was, besides the cool features, that it was openly available for every platform.
Though to be honest I wonder what could possibly replace Java on the (JEE) server side. Java has been brilliant for this use case.
Maybe Google will come up with a replacement (BINJ : BINJ is not Java 
)
+1 LOL