It is on this page at javalobby and you will need to be registered to see it. I don’t know if it is even enforceable since the license in the download says it is for jre1.4.2. Still I am sure a widely available alpha won’t happen again if we do talk publically about System.nanoTime() so just don’t do it.
Hmm, that was a weird place to put an NDA, I wonder where ChrisM got his NDA from?
- elias
I haven’t signed any NDA so I feel free to talk about anything I like 
Cas 
So where can we talk about the 1.5 JDK? There is an email address mentioned, but no instructions on how to subscribe to the list, otherwise emails to that address bounce. I can’t find any documentation for 1.5, and wouldn’t you know it I have some questions.
Sun is supposedly going to have a mailing list set up at some point. I guess they didn’t get it done before the holidays. If you want docs just use javadoc. You can download 1.5 directly from Sun without going through javalobby now and the NDA is for 1.5 not 1.4.2.
[quote]It is on this page at javalobby and you will need to be registered to see it.
[/quote]
Ah, maybe this is where our confusion comes from. I saw no NDA at JavaLobby, as I personally didn’t get the beta from there. I got it from java.sun.com directly, and I can’t say for sure but I don’t think the click-through I read had any kind of NDA on it. I say I can’t say for sure, as you don’t seem to be able to view the agreement once you’ve agreed to it once?
Edit: Managed to get the licence agreement up again, and I was wrong - there is an NDA in there:
[quote]7.1 […] “Confidential Information” means […] (ii) Licensee’s feedback based on Licensed Software […] Licensee may not disclose or use Confidential Information, except for the purposes specified in this Agreement. […] 7.2
[/quote]
Well, I missed it, and I actually read the darn thing. :-/
Incidentally, while we’ve complying with licences, I have to point out that it is a requirement for you to waste time, chat with co-workers, go home early etc if you intend to use this release:
[quote]3.4 Licensee shall have no right to use the Licensed Software for productive […] use.
[/quote]
An electronic license or NDA without a signature on is not worth the paper it’s printed on.
IANAL.
Cas
[quote]An electronic license or NDA without a signature on is not worth the paper it’s printed on.
[/quote]
Sure and nobody will sue you for violating it. They will just not release open alpha test next time…
I asked a lawyer friend of mine what he thinks of the unsigned contract. I will post what his answer is, which will probably only be good in the US. Since they have been around so long I assume they have been tested in court and are sound.
Regardless, if Sun employees see people violating the license agreement then the possiblity of future public alpha releases and other types of public events might be non existent or very rare.
That doesn’t mean that you can create bogus licenses and make people follow them.
I’m all into the “release often” part of Open Source thinking, so it’s SUN’s loss if they stop releasing alphas to the public. After all, we’re probably finding quite a few of those problems that otherwise wouldn’t show up.
- elias
My lawyer friend says the nda is all legal though he said unless you have deep pockets it isn’t worth their time taking you to court. Of course if they don’t get the damn mailing list up and working I think we might have to start talking openly about it.
I could very easily post a message on this board with some insane license on it that required you to give me your home and all its contents upon clicking Reply. There is a reason why we have to physically sign something for it to be legally binding. Even signing something does not necessarily make it legally binding if the agreement is itself deemed illegal or even unfair in certain circumstances.
It’s just daft anal posturing by the legal department. Legal departments are well characterised by their poor public relations records.
Cas
[quote]I could very easily post a message on this board with some insane license on it that required you to give me your home and all its contents upon clicking Reply. There is a reason why we have to physically sign something for it to be legally binding.
[/quote]
but…the main reason your insane license doesn’t work is because of the legal definition of a “contract”, which in most jurisdictions includes “intent by both parties” and some level of “reasonable belief that it was genuine”.
Hence obviously accidental mis-pricings are usually irrelevant, and so too are “accidental” contracts, where e.g. someone sends you a product and then tries to bill you without you ordering it. If they sent you something you didn’t order, it’s their mistake, not a contract.
In addition, digital signatures have been legally binding in the EU for a couple of years now. The precise meaning of “digital signature” in this respect I don’t recall, but it certainly doesn’t require any cryptography IIRC - simple evidence of you confirming something via email is (again IIRC) sufficient.
IANAL.
Yes, but these all require active input on your part and constitute proof that you understand the terms of the contract. They have to draw the line somewhere.
Even typing “I agree” into a text box does not mean you have agreed to any contract because there is no proof of your identity agreeing to the terms. Anyone could have done it.
A digital signature, whilst not yet recognised in law in most places, is the way forward for legally binding agreement, and it’ll probably be made legal at some point in the reasonably near future. It’s very, very difficult to forge a digital signature - considerably harder than a real signature.
Until then, click on anything you like and speak with impunity.
Cas
Did Sun finally establish the tiger-alpha mailing list?
There’s something I would like to ask about/comment in jre/bin/client/. 
Heaven forbid, but it looks like classes.jsa is actually some kind of cached result or maybe an index…
…btw does anyone know where I can get docs for JDK1.5?
Cas
I don’t think it matters if they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you installed the software or not. If my brother borrows my car and gets a parking ticket I have to pay since the car is registered to me. I think since only money is involved, not jail time, the burden of proof isn’t as high. At least in the US there is case law supporting the validity of this type of license so violate at your own peril.
I think you can generate your own docs via javadoc with the 1.5 flag set.
I can confirm that you must generate the docs yourself. With the 1.5 javadoc tool.
Gah! My poor tiny brain. Anybody got a ready made commandline for me to paste ?
Cas