Maybe we should have a vote onto allow LWJGL as a permitable (3rd party that doesn’t count against the 4k)??
I personally would be okay to having others use it, but probably not utilize it though. Except maybe for a more smoother and consistent timer/render loop.
I don’t have any experience with LWJGL, so I’m curious as to how much overhead it would add to an Applet versus using the straight Java2D libs. I’m thinking about the constant pool size additional requirements for the class names and method signatures. I know that’s a subjective question, as LWJGL offers features not in the Java2D libs.
My question is really about whether users of LWJGL would have an “unfair advantage” over those who don’t use it. That itself is also a subjective question, because just by using a library doesn’t make a game fun.
All in all, though, I’m in favor of expanding the number of games as long as it doesn’t have an impact on those who don’t use the library, or on the work load for the judges.
It won’t have much of an impact. You’re trading code size for power if you use LWJGL. I’m in favor of including LWJGL as an optional lib for Java4K.
I’m all for adding LWJGL. At under 4K, the difference between LWJGL and Java2D is not too extreme.
Well, no harm in somebody* just trying it is there?
Cas 
Since RNG related topics are semi-faddish ATM, here’s a small one:
rng = rng*0xB5262C85; // just don't have initial seed of zero :)
Last year I warmed over my Sharpshooter game for LWJGL16k (which didn’t happen again), and personally I think 16k is a better size for doing OpenGL as it allows more room for data. If Prince ever gets the LWJGL16k going (maybe in another 5 years), I’ll finish my second entry :).
It might be possible to do a basic 3D game in 4k, but there wouldn’t be room for fonts, so no text. For 2D, I’d rather use Java2D. Does LWJGL applet performance still suck on OSX since Oracle took over the JVM and ditched support for [insert whatever the interface was called - I’m too lazy to look it up]? That would definitely swing it to Java2D for me.
Hopefully (No LWJGL16k distraction this year), I’ll get a 4k on the blocks.
Incidentally, if anyone wants to do a Java1K, I have done Pong in 1K just for laughs.
Edit: Having had a look over at LWJGL.com, I think JDK 7 on OSX is a work in progress. I.e. currently not working.
For me, the appeal of the Java 4K contest is attempting to accomplish a lot within a ridiculous, artificial constraint. If anything, take some libraries away.
My preference would be to keep the existing J4K contest in its current format, and have a separate OpenGL nK contest - perhaps run at a different time of the year, to ensure that the two contests don’t compete for entrants.
+1
I also think this should be 2 seperate contests.
LWJGL requires someone with a standard Java Runtime to download a big library (hundreds of times larger than the 4k game) first.
This kind of looks odd when claiming that the game is just 4kb.
As much as I am a supporter of LWJGL, I would prefer Java2D for a 4k competition, but I don’t think that should stop other people from using it.
I reckon it should be either standard Java or LWJGL, no other libraries.
Anyway, I’m going to have a shot at a 4K game to see what I can do…
(Btw, I’m assuming that it is 4KB of RAM. Is this right?)
The compressed jar (or nowadays pack.gz) must be 4096 bytes or smaller.
An obfusticator such as proguard and a packing utility (e.g. kzip or 7-zip) will be needed to achieve this.
Alan
Okay, that’s a bit easier
With java7 allowed, javafx becomes a valid target as well.
I also agree that if a big extra library like lwjgl is allowed, it should be a separate contest like LWJGL16K. I also wouldn’t mind seeing LibGDX added to the mix for another such “big library, small program” contest.
I don’t want libraries (much as I love them) I think a ‘do you want to install a big untrusted file?’ prompt would kinda kill the 4K mood! Anyway, what’s the point? A good game will shine through the simplest of graphics.
I just wondered if using an alternative rendering API would be fun for some people is all. I won’t touch Java2D with a bargepole myself, it’s completely pointless dead tech as far as I’m concerned.
Anyway… if the recent security woes haven’t scared everyone off of using Java applets anyway (even I’ve disabled Java on my system, permanently, now), I doubt a signed dialog from LWJGL is going to scare anyone else off.
Cas
According to Wikipedia, Java 4K ended long ago:
Agreed. Plus it would make the community alive throughout the year and not only from december to march.
+1 for no external libraries. The current competition format is fine, so why change it!