Java on playstation 2 with Linux kit?

General Discussions
#1

Anyone knows if it supports java and if so which version?

#2

Not as far as I know yet.

If there was an open source linux VM then it should be moderately easy (as the PS2 linux includes OpenGL bindings)

  • Dom
#3

[quote]Not as far as I know yet.

If there was an open source linux VM then it should be moderately easy (as the PS2 linux includes OpenGL bindings)

  • Dom
    [/quote]
    Dom, if it was that easy…we would have it finished by now :slight_smile: Unfortunately, Java on the PS2 architecture is a bit more complex.

-Chris

#4

lazy bums ;D

#5

[quote] Dom, if it was that easy…we would have it finished by now Smiley Unfortunately, Java on the PS2 architecture is a bit more complex.
[/quote]
Am I the only one that read this as you ARE working on an implementation?
I was under the impression that the work was dropped?

#6

Well if you need any tips I spent 3 years as a PS2 engine coder :wink:

#7

While I can’t comment on our relationship with Sony, I can tell you that there are a few hurdles with porting Java to the PS2 as it is an extremely custom piece of kit. By example, the manner in which the PS2 handles floating point vs. the way Java handles floating point. Our goal is to make sure that any Java implementation on any device conforms to the Java specification. Any thing that breaks it, can’t be called “Java”.

-Chris

#8

So, such a beast would be a good (interesting) test of the portability of the JVM.

::slight_smile:

–
I guess if everything is Turing-complete, then it is trivial from a theoretical point of view.

#9

[quote]So, such a beast would be a good (interesting) test of the portability of the JVM.

::slight_smile:

–
I guess if everything is Turing-complete, then it is trivial from a theoretical point of view.
[/quote]
Again the question is not the portability of the VM. I remember a VM port that was done to the Dreamcast VMU and was fully compliant :slight_smile: The real issue comes down to getting a VM onto a particular platform that:

[]achieves the performance you want
[]is COMPLIANT and achieves the speed you want
[*]has the professional level of support for commercial level product

Again, while I can’t comment on the progress of a VM on a PS platform, I can tell you that we are in regular communcation with Sony and are well aware of the platforms.

-Chris

#10

Hmm, the compliance will be a big issue as the PS2 floats are a little odd.

Shame really - a non-totally compliant one that can run our games would be great, especially if we can link to a custom module that uses custom microcode :stuck_out_tongue:

  • Dom
#11

Wouldent it just be easiere(and faster) todo a java to PS2 compiler :wink:

#12

It is good that java on PS2 is being talked about between sun and sony. What I am hoping is that they are using the experience to work out a way for java to run on the next generation PS3. Imagine how cool that announcement would be… :o

#13

I think what many people here seem to be missing is that Java on Console ( PS2/3/Xbox/dreamcast/GQ ) is probably not a technical issue. The problems can probably be lumped into 2 catgories…

  1. MONEY: Consoles are sold at a loss for the first year+ of there lifespan. How does allowing a JVM on the platform allow the OEM to recoup costs on the platform. It’s not something that SUN or the OEM can just eat.

  2. Support: How does sun support such a platform and what documentation and features do they support. Does it need to be supported like mobile phone with a jME like platform or will the whole shebang be supported?..

I would LOVE to see a console OEM handle this in a more developer friendly manner. At some point in the lifespan of the product, once the platform start making money on it’s own, give away the developer docs and keys to make non-commerical games. This could easly be enforced by a specific loader sequence that would show a simple disclaimer before relenquishing it’s control to the program. This would allow for people to develop whatever software, including JVM support on their own.

#14

I would be really happy if there was a JVM for PS2 or PS3 since I am developing a professional authoring tool in Java/jogl.

#15

How might you expect JOGL to work on PS3?

Cas :slight_smile:

#16

well … if the ps3 have openGL … why not :slight_smile:
otherwise, I will adapt my code to match the ps3 gfx lib

#17

Consoles (except xBox) tend not to come with a neat GFX lib - and certainly not standard ones like openGL. Commercial games studios prefer to get their hands dirty working with the hardware as directly as possible and build their own APIs on top of that without the need for extra libs. PS2 for example is all about writing directly to hardware registers and building DMA chains. It takes a year or two before some nice Sony engineer gets the time on their hands to try and make a working OpenGL interface, and then its nowhere near as optimal as hitting the hardware yourself as the generic API won’t cater for the quirks of the particular platform.

#18

This has got to change. It’s hurthing the bottom line. Retraining developers to specialist toolsets is far too expensive. There is only one sensible route and that’s OpenGL for all consoles in the future. Will they take it?

Cas :slight_smile:

#19

[quote]Commercial games studios prefer to get their hands dirty working with the hardware as directly as possible and build their own APIs on top of that without the need for extra libs.
[/quote]
I’d estimate that at least 50% of the console games I’ve played in the last year have had a big “Renderware” logo slapped across them.

#20

Well it worked in the day of the Amiga :slight_smile:

The thing is the consoles are generally underpowered in terms of CPU, at least relative to PCs. And I would say that they have to last longer since they usually aren’t upgradeable like a PC. (Which is why I don’t own a console and probably never will - I have a PC.)

So going to the hardware allows the game programmer to exploit the capabilities of the system and get as much out of it as possible.

But I don’t disagree that it should change. But the way that will happen is basically by making every console into an X-box. That is, make it a PC but don’t tell them it’s a PC. Then you can start using standard components for which the standard APIs, like OpenGL, are designed. The downside is that may restrict innovation. E.g. a radically new graphics chip design that doesn’t work like the others may not be easy to program via OpenGL.

Scott