That has to go both ways. I try to be tolerant because I really like the usually laid back attitude that rules this forum, but when you converse the way that longino does… its hard not to take the bait.
As for XNA being the the only thing available, there is also SlimDX which I would call the “libgdx” way to dev games using C#:
I’ve never used it but I followed its development with interest and at least a couple of years ago it looked pretty neat. Don’t know what it grew into since 
I think Unity’s where it’s at when it comes to C#. Quite the phenomenon.
wrt Longino - no need to rise to the bait. No need to reply if you don’t agree or don’t like the tone. Even goeussej and I get along congenially in here.
Cas
Of course you’re right. I guess to understand that last statement you “had to be there” 
I don’t think that’s true. XNA isn’t some magic library that suddenly does things better and faster than other libraries IMHO. I’ve only worked on 4 XNA projects, so I’m definitely no expert.
I think LibGDX (considering he was talking about Android) was mentioned a few times.
Which is what he got?
I don’t understand. I don’t think anyone’s riding on a high horse in here. The only reason I mentioned Game Maker is because he ignored LibGDX and it seemed to me that he might find it useful. It’s not an insult, GM is great. Although these days it’s quite expensive for the full version :o
There’s scope for someone to come up with some RAD tool based on libgdx underneath to compete with Unity I suppose. The real problem of course being that Java is more or less tied to the desktop and its browser plugin is still completely lame.
Cas
I consider that to be a plus.
Good for you, each to their own. It stops me from using it.
Endolf
Does anyone in the games industry at large actually use a 3D scenegraph for anything though?
Cas
No idea, but it makes my life easier for the hobby stuff I do
Endolf
Don’t Unreal Engine, Unity3D, CryEngine, Source Engine, etc all use 3d scene graphs?
I think someone more knowledgeable on the subject (Roquen? theagentd) will come along and correct me but I have a feeling that these engines are maybe not scene graphs in the “traditional” sense. Even Wikipedia has rather vague definition.
Cas
Which is why I am not even sure entirely what a scene graph is.
I do know the source engine has one though…
With most modern engines, the scenegraph is there at development time so you can drag and drop nodes in a big tree. At runtime, this gets baked into some spatial partitioning system that doesn’t use the naive recursive renderer of a scenegraph. It’s still a very valid conceptual model, if a somewhat obsolete runtime one.
Offtopic:
[quote=“endolf,post:37,topic:39279”]
I think it’s a combination of accelerated growth and (new) members trying to establish themselves by being loud, stating opinions that are not fully thought through, occasionally intentionally insulting.
Ontopic:
IMHO ‘graphs’ are mainly useful for creating a hierarchy for transformations, like holding a weapon or moving around in a vehicle. The more ‘meta-data’ you add to the nodes (lighting, color, texture, alpha) the more of a mess it becomes. Typically your geometrical graph doesn’t quite fit the graph of the other properties, leading to hacks / ugly code to work around these issues.
Regarding forum personality: I had a high intensity ranking at one point. I think it’s just how I tend to drive a conversation. Even though I give strong opinions, I’m always interested in learning more (and changing my opinions). Unfortunately, in my relatively brief experience here, some of the members focus on the negative and make little attempt to be cordial at all, sadly perpetuating the “jaded programmer” stereotype. I like what JGO is all about, but the community is not what I would call friendly.
On to my jaded opinion on Java+Games: Sun, and now Oracle, have never known what to do for the end-user, and games are all about the end-user. Applets offer a terrible user experience (Adobe got it right with Flash). Java is a language by developers and for developers. There is no good reason users should have to know what language anything is written in, but it takes a lot of work to hide Java from players, even with desktop applications.
On to being full of myself: I was at the first Java Game Conference (at JavaONE 2003). Three Rings Design (PuzzlePirates) presented, which was neat, but overall, the atmosphere was depressed and corporate. I recall Sun was pushing some Java Gaming API, which turned out to be nothing more than a Web page with hyperlinks to the Java2D, Sound, Keyboard, and Joystick JavaDocs. Now that’s weak.
More overstated opinions: Regarding the original thread of discussion, I’ve been fed the it just works line before, and it tends to come from folks that like to stack up blocks rather than construct with an Erector Set. Either can build fine software, but the former is less interested in the nuts and bolts of constructing the framework. This community, for better or worse, is the latter (and I plan to stay).
WRT: Scenegraphs in 3D. I second what sproingie said. Great model for building things. Terrible for runtime/simulations of things. No major game uses a scenegraph at runtime to my knowledge.
Offtopic:
Don’t expect the rankings to have any meaning. An SQL query certainly can’t figure out the way you communicate, let alone whether you’re mindlessly rambling or in an intense discussion about stuff that matters. Those rankings are purely there for my amusement (except for the numberwangers listing, that’s serious).
Yes, I understand. Soon after fining these forums, I found the social numerical analysis to be a very amusing (and unique) feature, so I wanted to point it out in regards to the personality profiling prolific in this post. Regarding rambling ranking, I’m bent on bettering my present ‘prone to prose’ profile position. I apologize for my apparent aptitude for articulating ancillary articles of the argument. Adew.
Bonjour
Pls don’t bother about this post…
I have been developing in Java for a long time and it puzzles me the state of things in it. Why is Java so bad for so many things? When it is glaringly obvious by the competition that there are better ways of doing things.
Java moves at a glacial pace.
Only in Java 8 we are getting closures and defender methods. And the impression I get is that it happened only because Java development was humiliated so badly that Sun/Oracle had no other choice. Does it really need to reach such a point?
Java is a pathetic non-competitor in gaming because of this “insular” attitude.