How many java installations are out there on the customer machines

General Discussions
#1

Hi!

We have here at our company a java game developed. Now we have started the beta test of this game, and we see a big difference between the registrated users ( registration dont need java ), and the people who logged into the game. The game is started with the java webstart ( JNPL ). Around 35-40% !! of the registrated users dont login at all. Now is the question why this happends. I have done a quick research and found out that a proper Java is often not installed on the target machines, for example if you have a new Window Vista you have to install a JRE.

Now is the question if the numbers ( 35-40% ) are correct. So that really so much users have no proper java installed. And if so, are there more good mechanism as only to explain the user what java is and why he has to install it to solve this problem and get more users to install java?

Around 40% is a really big amount and i hope that this number could decreased a lot.

Are here some people who have experienced the same problem, and are there any good solutions?

Thanks for help
PaulKA

#2

JWS is a not really the nicest ways to distribute your game since it’ll fail to start on many computers, probably due to missing java, not being properly installed, wrong mime types, browser not picking it up, etc.

A better way would probably be to provide a downloadable bundle. Alternatively you could try your luck with applets, IMO they are generally better supported or found on end user computers than JWS, and in some cases you can get the browser to automatically prompt the user to install java or use some javascript voodoo to detect and point users to install java if its missing. Some of the big games companies that use java use a partial applet library called GetDown as an alternative to JWS to distribute their games.

#3

With people signing up on your site, it’s a lot nicer if they can also play on your site too rather then through JWS. It’s foreign technology popping up on their machine asking for approval to being run, this looks dodgy to the majority of people who have never heard of Java Web Start. It’s like when indie games are distributed as an installer rather then a .zip. You often get people (myself included) who’d just rather not bother with it.

As for Java penetration, I believe it’s somewhere over 90%. Pretty much all PCs sold today include Java. Google Analytics also includes a section that will tell you what percentage of your users have Java installed, on my site it’s at 90.7%. I would presume/hope other website statistics software will also tell you how many of your visitors have Java installed.

Finally although the vast majority of Java users run Java 6, it’s still not all. Especially for anyone trying your game at a university, school, business or on any other kind of organisation PC. For best market penetration I’d aim to support Java 5.

#4

yeah, it is probably that ppl are scared off by the “this program requests unrestricted access toy our computer”. Unless you didnt sign it?

unless he is using a 3rd party api, switching to applet is a hassle lol.

#5

Agreed. Java 6 doesn’t bring that many API changes anyway, at least not enough to justify reducing your potential userbase.

btw, doesn’t Google Analytics also include people with Microsoft’s 1.1 JVM?

#6

You must measure these two things:

  1. Hits on your JNLP file (check http logs)
  2. Successful launches of your application

The fact that you’re measuring 35-40%, doesn’t mean that it fails a lot, it might mean that people simply don’t click your link.

It is however very likely that JavaWebStart fails a lot, due to Java not being installed, or just doesn’t work. There are a lot of bugs that have been around for years. Mainly to do with caching, a few download bugs, and a bunch of obscure ones. Don’t expect them to get fixed – even if they get fixed, it will take years for your userbase to upgrade to/beyond that version.

If you really want to reach a significant part of your userbase, ditch Java, it has roughly a 75-80% market penetration (this is the number I get from quite a few of the sites I build at work), it can’t beat Flash’s 98%. If you are willing to lose 25%, go for applets.

#7

probably, but I’d expect that percentage of users to be tiny.

#8

Hi!

Thanks for the many answers. We have an applet version but currently we dont use it because its more browser dependent and some browsers offers only a little amount of jvm memory ( on MAC for example sometimes only 60 MB ).

Also we have created a little test applet after the user has registrated that checks the java version. The result from this is that around 30-40% of the users have not installed an acurate JRE. Possible the applet didnt work correct but it shows the same numbers of users which didnt log in.

In Google Analytics the Java penetrations has 92%. I am wondering if Google checks there if an JRE is installed or if it only checks for JavaScript. From the user feedback and also from the numbers of the applet tester it doesnt looks like a 92 % Java penetration.

Also the Microsoft JVM seams to be a problem. I don’t know how many machines have only this Microsoft JVM which isnt enought for our application. I have bought recently a new Windows Vista Notebook and there was only this Microsoft JVM preinstalled. It would be cool if someone has any numbers how many new Machines are shipped with an acurate JVM.

Many Thanks
PaulKA

#9

From Java 6 update 10 onwards this can be set in HTML, linky.

JavaScript is not Java. It shares the name due to a marketing deal, nothing more. So I’d expect it just means Java and not ‘Java or JavaScript’.

I believe you might be mistaken. The MS JVM has been discontinued since 2001 and according to Wikipedia the most recent product to ship it was the original service pack 1 for XP, which was later replaced by a version without the MS JVM. I find it very doubtful that it is still distributed on any modern PC.

IMHO I think your vastly overestimating how popular the MS JVM is. After Googling around I found two Java version stats here and here. In both the Sun JVM makes up the vast majority, but well under 90%. More worryingly Java 6 penetration is only at around 50%. There is also this guide that describes how to get Google Analytics to report what version of Java people are running.

#10

welcome to the Java World…

there are severals different version of Java, and as said above, Java 1.6 is only on 50% of client computer, wich version of Java are you using ?

you can target more user by compiling for previews version using javac -target 1.5 or 1.4 or …

EDIT:

also… you may fall in one of the severals Java release bugs, this mean that your application can run fine for example with Java 1.6-02 and crash on Java 1.6-07 and run fine on Java 1.6-10, you should log wich OS/java version fails to log and then investigate the problem

#11

Thanks!

The statistic links from JL235 shows i think the numbers that we are experienced. We use at least Java 1.5 and we could not compile it for a lower version because of libary dependencys and features in our code. The stats show a java 1.5 and higher penetration of around 66 % - 74% on our side we have a user loss ( users that have registrated but not logged in ) from about 30-40%. I think also the typical user has no plan what java is and he is afraid of installing it if he hasnt java installed before. So we have to invest more on website information why java is needed.

#12

(for applet only but) there is a nice way to ask the user to install java with applet due to the fact that everything in the applet tag is ignored if java is not available, this enable to put a very nice gui to explain to visitors why java must be installed for example :

<applet ..... >

<IMG "whyyouneedjava.jpg>
</applet>

or

<applet ...... >

<flash object > a nice flash + gui to say to user why it should instal java </flash object>
</applet>

this way when a visitor without java installed arrive on your website you can run a flash application with som more explanation o why & how install java, you can also use standard html if you dont want to use flash