how do i maek a mmorpg...

Newbie & Debugging Questions
#1

…Is what I’m going to try and make my first post here NOT sound like.

My name is Brendan, and I started out a few years ago with web design. I grabbed a few friends and constructed an LLC under the common desire to make games over the web. I worked with the more basic side of coding (read: HTML, CSS, and a few lines of JS) and was the lead writer for pretty much every design doc. Before I could reach my goal of owning a subscription-based game service, costs weighed down the process and we had to dump the few games we had-- and sadly, a few of us had to end our college careers.

So, that went the way of Walt Disney.

Earlier this year, another LLC called up out of nowhere and was interested in our work. Another homegrown project centered around web-based market research software bought the operation, and I went along for the ride. My friends opted for the money, and I gladly gave up my share, since they’d invariably have more success picking up work… I’m sure you’re all aware of the differences between freelance web design and actual programming. So here I am, 2D artist for a group that’s doing some pretty amazing stuff with VB.NET, earning a living. Things are pretty good as they are.

But last month, the main programmer and primary partner walks up to me and tells me, “this isn’t really what I wanted to do as a career.” We then proceeded to have a weeklong conversation about games, the current market, ideas and ideals. I wouldn’t believe it if I heard it, but this guy is planning to grow the company with the little staff he has until we can’t grow it anymore-- at which point the company goes up for sale, and we all go separate ways. I didn’t hesitate in saying that I’m definitely on the level with his idea.

So here I am, ready to expand my knowledge. And if anyone’s still wondering: no, I’m not making an MMORPG. Not in the next year, anyway. I’ve spent the past few weeks absorbing everything I can regarding web-based languages-- everything from ActionScript to PHP to the third thing-- and decided this is the place to start. Even though I’m sure I’ll have to learn a little of everything, I’m sure Java is where my focus should be. Looks like you guys are leagues ahead, as before I’ve never had the opportunity or the compulsion to learn anything more complex than onMouseOver. So, I’m predicting this will be a painful, frustrating, and ultimately satisfying experience. So, hello!

If anyone has comments (advice, condolances, pleasantries, top ten things I should never ever ever do) I’d love to hear them!

#2

What a refreshing change… Welcome!

The advice you’ll get from most people here is to start nice and small (Pacman seems to be a fave) and work up. The misconception is that this will take a long time which of course in the most productive language ever (Java ;)) it doesn’t!

Kev

#3

http://www.gamelizard.com/game.php?game=robo#game

That’s the first game I ever made. I learned to write it by having moderate C++ knowledge, the JavaDocs for learning more in the language, Java on the Brain for some game source for examples, and the Java Almanac for quick questions answered all at my disposal. I don’t think I ever asked questions on forums before having this game created. From there once I had very specific questions, I would ask them on forums. With those resources at hand, I’ve managed to create all of the games on GameLizard with no books or courses in Java. The web is all you need!

#4

If you’re particularly interested in MMOG/MMORPG games you might want to read:

http://www.stratics.com/content/articles/mmoguide.php

#5

Thanks for the replies, and yes, I’m probably going to start with Pong.

For me, I don’t think it’ll be the complexity of game design that I’ll find intimidating, it’ll be the syntax.

My history goes: C64 Basic > DOS Basic > In-Game Scripting > HTML > other web stuff.

But as for “game logic”, I do a lot of studying on the side, without programming knowledge. I’ve created theories on physics models and poly manipulation, learning the logic behind it without seeing the actual process. I’ve studied algorithms and a bit of calculus so I have a good idea of what’s possible and what isn’t. But…

I’m not good at what I call “coding grammar”. I’ve seen a bunch of tutorials saying, “this is the command and you write it like like and hooray, you’ve made Tetris!” I’ve never seen a tutorial or lesson that concentrates on single commands, explaining their nature and what their good and bad implications are. Call it “the point-a-to-point-b” style of learning, but I don’t learn anything when there’s a goal and I’m regurgitating code to reach that goal. I don’t feel comfortable unless I’m getting the building blocks first. Of course, I usually end up learning this way-- so I comment most of my own code FOR ME, so I can remember the exact process. Maybe I’m not good with languages, I don’t know. But I’m going to have to start somewhere.

I guess that’s why learning HTML was relatively easy. There are tutorials everywhere, yes, but also an abundance of pages that say, “This is a list of tags. Here is how they work, and how they don’t work. Do with that what you want.” The open-ended nature of the goals made that possible, I think. Hooray, I’m not making Tetris, I’m building from the ground up. Then of course came the painful realization that my webpages weren’t going to have a FUNCTION unless I learned other languages. Anyway, that was all years ago, and unfortunately my brain’s hardened since then, so… sitting around telling you all my life’s story isn’t going to help me learn.

Now, I’m off to write “hello world”… I should be on that for about two days. Later.

#6

“23 Skidoo” seems to be used for everything from company names to occult and conspiracy references.

However, here is one origination theory that I found, by a man named Barry Popik.
http://www.barrypopik.com/article/70/twenty-three-skidoo-myth

[quote]"Twenty-Three Skidoo (myth)

One of the popular New York City myths is that the slang term “twenty-three skidoo” comes from the Flatiron Building at Twenty-Third Street and Broadway/Fifth Avenue. Tourist buses pass by this spot; they have to talk about something.

The area has high winds, lifting women’s skirts up. Allegedly, an Officer Kane told some naughty boys to “twenty-three skidoo” from the scene. Scram! Beat it! Go away!

The problem here is that I’ve found an article about Chicago slang writer George Ade talking about “twenty-three” in 1899. The Flatiron Building was completed in 1902. One theory is that “23” is the number of the last victim in the then-popular play version of Charles Dickens’s A Tale of Two Cities.

“Skidoo” probably comes from “skedaddle,” a term made popular during the Civil War.

I have several articles that credit the vaudeville actor Billy Vann with combining the two slang terms into “twenty-three skidoo.”

No doubt, the slang phrase was popular.

No doubt, it was used at 23rd Street.

Twenty-three skidoo the 23rd Street slang origin theory."
[/quote]