Draggable applets - advantages/disadvantages?

General Discussions
#1

At JavaOne one of the demos was a “draggable applet”, where an applet was dragged out of the browser and onto the desktop.

So what are the advantages/disadvantages of this feature for game developers? So far I’ve got:
Advantages:

  • Easier for developers to provide both webstart and applet versions
  • “Dragged” applets can provide a link on the user’s start menu.
    Disadvantages:
  • It might be difficult to communicate to the user that the applet can be dragged outside the browser.
  • Many applet games make revenue off of ads (Google AdSense), which won’t be shown when the game is started separate from the browser.

What are your thoughts? Are you interested in this feature?

Edit: Tech info here: https://jdk6.dev.java.net/plugin2/#EXPERIMENTAL_FUNCTIONALITY

#2

It’s a great idea if users can be convinced to learn how to drag them.

Cas :slight_smile:

#3

I think the whole point of draggable applets is the option to steal widgets/RIAs from the web and put them on your desktop. Not sure if this is what you want to accomplish with browser games. Maybe something like: try the game in the browser and detach it if you got addicted and want to play in future without browser (maybe fullscreen).

Technically the draggable feature is a side effect of the out of process capabilities of modern browsers and the merge of jnlp with applets. I don’t think there was a “killer usecase” for this feature the main reason why they are available is probably because it is now possible to implement them ;-).

I would be also interested in browser modal draggable applets:
http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=274193&#274193

#4

It’s probably interesting for some types of applications. For games, however, it generally is not. Unless you’re using some kind of subscription scheme.

#5

What about playing a web game in an airport and and your flight starts boarding? Tearing it off the web page to place it on the desktop and “take it with you” is pretty compelling…

#6

Spot on. People won’t even realize this is possible (or why they would care).

I, for one, never felt the urge to drag something off a webpage.

Last but not least, it will take several (5+) years before a substantial percentage of your visitors have 6u10 - currently 1.4.x is wide spread. This can only work in a controlled environment, or among enthausiasts, not the general public.

#7

I think fullscreen applets/webstart apps still require signed jars? I could be mistaken. But yes, that would be cool.

Good point. It might make a lot of sense for Runescape.

What, IE7 isn’t allowed on airplanes? I know airport security is tighter these days, but sheesh… :slight_smile:

Well if Sun releases it as an auto-update it will become a substantial percentage virtually overnight. (I’m currently getting about 75% Java 6 users.) Though I don’t know if Sun will do that or not.

Yeah, it break’s Jakob Neilson’s rule #3: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/application-mistakes.html
Something like what gmail chat does would be better - a simple “pop out” button. Maybe that’s possible with the current API, I’m not sure.

#8

I see this pretty often, and if I’m not mistaken, it’s not true. Existing users of JRE6 will get autoupdate, and for others there is deployment toolkit (in JS), which can detect and install/upgrade JRE to needed version. For installation it uses ActiveX in IE and XPI in Firefox. There is also Kernel VM which is smaller to download than normal JRE.

#9

Sadly it is true. Mac OS X. Bah. Half the bloody paying market, and a third of them are still stuck on 1.4.2.

Cas :slight_smile:

#10

People don’t want any interference of say… an installer that keeps them waiting for at least 60 seconds.

And JRE6 with auto-update… ha! I have a non-java-related site and the stats show hardly anybody (less than 1%) uses a version higher than 1.6.0_02

#11

i don’t think this is a problem, if you can’t convince people to wait (initially!) 60 seconds to play a game the game or the adds are probably not good enough to be played. Every Ubuntu 8.x distribution ships with re6 and things will improve further in the linux area (fedora is next) installation on windows is now pretty painless too. I think the users are aware of the fact that they are installing “something” which will work for this and many more websites.

Some people are even days online to get there (illegal!!) content downloaded since they think they are worth the time and the risk and are not aware of the consequences. I don’t think a 10 mb (legal!!) download is a problem anymore, I just remember the times when I downloaded the jdk with a analog modem just to “play” and code robocode :).

#12

Linux is a tiny market, especially for cusual stuff.

Further, everybody and their dog thinks “Java is slow” and “I don’t want to get my system infected”.

Really, on the website I have, roughly 70% of the users have 1.4.0 or higher. That means 30% has no Java.
I detect that, track those users with cookies, offer them a REALLY smooth installation procedure… yet hardly anybody (out of thousands) installed Java from the installer on the site, or came back to the site with Java installed.

That applet is crucial[ on the website, and visitors know it! They just don’t feel like installing anything.

and we just lost another potential customer, thank you very much

The process of installing Java might be smooth, but how do I convince the user to give it a try? That’s the problem!

#13

That’s interesting. For pulpgames.net I’m seeing 50% of Java 6 users have 1.6.0_05. So it’s working over here. It’s been a slow increase over the past 30 days. I wonder why there’s such discrepancy?

#14

Maybe because the site is in Spanish, and we target 30-60yr olds… selling fully customizable stuff (hence the applet).

Not your average casual gamer :slight_smile: