Contest Rules

Contests 4K Game Competition - 2006
#41

Also make sure you use the applet tag - NOT the object tag, that will save you some bytes

???

“Webstarted games’ code size will be determined with the JAR that Webstart uses to launch the game”

Starting an applet with webstart will gain even more bytes then (Yes, you can just do that.). But this is silly. The rule page doesnt state anywhere that the size of the html file is counted towards your file size. And well, as I said you can just start an applet through jws… and then its magically alright, huh?

#42

[quote]as far as gmail failing, not sure whats wrong with that - I don’t do any email validation as far as testing if it exists, perhaps you typed it wrong (i.e. you forgot an ‘@’ or ‘.’ character which the script’s regex looks for).
[/quote]
Nope I typed it correctly as I always do. My e-mail address is keICEInt.larJIOJWsson@gmail.com without the uppercase letters (I don’t want spam). Could it be that your validation script can’t handle addresses with dots before the @? (Which are perfectly valid addresses.)

[quote]the archive file, whether an executable JAR or ZIP file, must be below the 4096 limit. My best advice is to port it to a JFrame or try another zipping program. Also make sure you use the applet tag - NOT the object tag, that will save you some bytes
[/quote]
Are you sure that is the way it should be? It seems strange as the jar file size is the only size counted in the case of an webstarted application. What’s the difference? If I turn it into an webstarted application I will just have my jar file size counted. Could you please give a motivation for this decision? Should I just make it into an JWS application and resubmit it? In that case only webstarted applications should be allowed as no one would want to create an applet.

[quote]Starting an applet with webstart will gain even more bytes then (Yes, you can just do that.). But this is silly. The rule page doesnt state anywhere that the size of the html file is counted towards your file size. And well, as I said you can just start an applet through jws… and then its magically alright, huh?
[/quote]
I agree. If applets should have an unfair ruling like this it would be better not to have accepted them in the first place.

#43

a game and all of its resources must be below 4K - it has always been this way. if you choose to ZIP it thats up to you, if your HTML pushes your ZIP over then that’s a problem you need to address yourself.

the only difference this year is that I added an exemption for Webstart games. If you can provide a stand-alone JAR that runs and is below 4K but would like to Webstart it without having to worry about sandbox, then you may.

Either way the ‘archive file’ is ALWAYS below 4K, it’s always been that way.

It’s nothing against applets, it’s an extra feature for standalone JAR games that would like to be able to webstart without worry of signing being a road block.

applets are different and have their own advantages and disadvantages: one disadvantage would be that it cant be an executable JAR - that’s not a limitation I invented.

#44

Nope I typed it correctly as I always do. My e-mail address is keICEInt.larJIOJWsson@gmail.com without the uppercase letters (I don’t want spam). Could it be that your validation script can’t handle addresses with dots before the @? (Which are perfectly valid addresses.)
[/quote]
It’s definitely the validation script & I reckon it’s the '.'s, or possibly a restriction on field size, because my email wasn’t accepted either & I had to leave the field blank. I figure Woogley can contact me here anyway and my email is available on request.

Alan

#45

yes, just a script bug, next time I’m around the php code I’ll just adjust the regex

#46

woogley: So if I have an applet as I do, I can just package it as a webstart application instead and everything is all right? Or must it be a normal application?

#47

I’m certainly not the only person who interpreted it like this. The rules doesn’t mention anything like that… am I supposed to guess?

If we need to count the jnlp size towards our size then… well, then about everyone gets disquailified (my game, miners, roll, speed, bad sector… etc).

#48

Surely there is some sort of miscommunication going on here. JNLP files can’t really be counting as part of the 4K can they? Or for that matter the HTML that the game jar is embedded on a webpage with?

I mean otherwise all you’re encouraging is people making it hard to run their games.

Kev

#49

I agree, NO ONE ELSE has interpreted it this way. The only size that matters is the jar, however you launch it (jnlp, html) is extra.

[quote]a game and all of its resources must be below 4K - it has always been this way. if you choose to ZIP it thats up to you, if your HTML pushes your ZIP over then that’s a problem you need to address yourself.
[/quote]
This is absolutely NOT true. How many games last year were under 4k when jnlp was included? Not many. My applet jar was 4096, html was in addition to that.

Who appointed woogley to be the 4k czar anyway? You know what happened to the last czar when he pissed off the people…

:frowning:

#50

Far more importantly, the HTML and JNLP files never counted toward the 4K in previous years. (I’ve been in this contest since Year 1.) While I’m an admitted Applet hater, you still needed to clarify this change as the rules don’t appear to reflect it.

[quote]Who appointed woogley to be the 4k czar anyway?
[/quote]
Mlk is the contest organizer, and he bestowed these powers on Woogley. So be nice. :slight_smile:

#51

In the past competitions the html in which an applet was embedded did not count toward the app. size.
(though obviously cheating by passing in data or code via a parameter was forbidden)

#52

I never said JNLP’s get counted towards your size, the rules say it’s the JAR, where are you seeing that JNLP gets counted?

the only reason HTML gets counted is because it’s inside the zip, along with (sometimes) several other files. Am I supposed to unzip the game, cut out the HTML, rezip the game without the HTML, and then validate?

the only workaround I see is to only allow two files in a zip archive: the HTML (which is exempt like the JNLP) and the game archive itself which gets validated - or, not to allow applets at all

thats the only idea I have, I don’t see any of you suggesting any. And I’m always open to ideas (which hardly makes me a ‘czar,’ nonnus… don’t overreact to an issue that I’m trying to resolve as fairly as I can)

#53

Ah ha, thought it had been misread somewhere.

Presumably with an Applet only the actual Applet archive counts not the HTML its embedded in. I mean isn’t that a delivery device like JNLP? When submitting an Applet you could submit an archive, main-class and width x height to run at. Then the scripts in the background could generate the appropriate applet HTML page.

Awwww… we’d been doing so well aswell :slight_smile: Great games coming out. New people coming on board. A nice consolidated central site.

Does sound like a just a misunderstanding on the JNLP front really :slight_smile:

Kev

#54

This is true except the format of the data inside the zip that is downloaded isn’t always cut-and-dry 1 html file and 1 applet jar. But if it was, then that’d be acceptable to only validate the applet jar inside the zip. maybe that can spcified in the rules

I think that’s brilliant. That would also eliminate any chance of cheating (not that it’s ever really been a problem before anyway…)

#55

I agree. The clear difference between JNLP files and HTML files are that the html’s are within the archive, and that you’d need to extract them before validation - this doesn’t really make sense, since the JAR is to be measured without changing it prior to the validation process. I’d say, that if you provide a link to a HTML site and don’t include the HTML file in the JAR, it should be fine. Also, you can include the HTML as long as it fits within the 4k. That way, a HTML counts just as a JNLP - no difference at all.

The idea of submitting main-class, etc. with the game is excellent, because it discourages cheating and generates a site on the fly, making sure that devs don’t have to think about the HTML files to start it :slight_smile:

#56

[quote](which hardly makes me a ‘czar,’ nonnus… don’t overreact to an issue that I’m trying to resolve as fairly as I can)
[/quote]
I guess the angry face was a bad choice, as the implied joke was obscured; ie the last czar of russia was assasinated along with his family, we’d NEVER do that to the woogley-ites… or would we? :-X

:slight_smile:

#57

Glad to hear that its sorted now. Heh. :slight_smile:

#58

My entry is now converted into an application and I have submitted a webstart version instead. Thanks to using KZip I could even sequeeze in 95 levels instead of 78 as before. (My blog entry about the game.) I didn’t need to sign it as it seems to work perfectly anyway. If I were the only entrant creating an applet I guess there isn’t any problem anymore.

[append:]
My entry: http://javaunlimited.net/games/view.php?id=58]
Why is there a link saying “Download archive” even though I didn’t supply an archive URL? (I guess I could have as the jar-file is there, but I did only supply the webstart URL) I looked at some entries from 2005 and some of them only has a webstart link. If possible could the archive link be updated to hold: http://thisistheurl.com/file/Sokoban4k/Sokoban4k.jar (which is the archive URL) or removed. Sorry if this is due to me missing something during the submit.

#59

I wouldn’t say so. You’re taking the OOP methodology and throwing it out of the window and breaking/bending other “good programming” practices that you would otherwise use.

I think this contest is all about how much you can do with as little as possible. And you’ll be refactoring your code a lot to design things better, more effecient and in fewer lines.

#60

Heh…

::slight_smile: = sarcasm, I do believe.