Community Project Mark 562 - Game Direction Vote (v2)

Hey all,

3D artist / game designer, my friend Jon told me about this open project and I would be interested to help with any art and modeling required. Even offer some design ideas should you all want it added. I studied game design at high financial cost and it’s something I want to do for the rest of my life. It’s tough to get into the industry and only way is to keep making games to show that you got what it takes to last once you’re in.

You can check out my portfolio at www.jackyin.net. I am currently modeling random things I get interested from reading wikipedia. ATM it’s WWII machines of destruction :-*. Since I’ll be modeling stuff anyway, Jon asked if I’d be interested in this project.

Here I am, sign me up!

Cheers,
Jack

I think were all waiting for a leader to take up the reigns and say “here we go: we are making a space trading game similar to freelancer with a more stylized dark comic book feel, and the ability to land on planets etc, etc., wiki here, code here. Sign up and lets get going.”

I’d love to be that person and think I could but I just don’t have the time at the moment. Might in a month or so, but I think it’s up to you at the moment Kev.

Incidentally I think a wiki is probably the best way to manage this. Have one page per class/resource and a big index of all classes/resources in the project (probably would need to be created up front). Have a wiki page for each member and at the top of the page for each class a link to the member who is responsible for that class. Have an outline of the interface on page and use the talk pages to discuss interfaces to classes managed by other members.

I happy to lead an RTS project if people are Interested. Similar to warcraft 3

i would be willing to commit a few hours a week if like the idea.

i voted RTS, but i think its all rather vague - how about anyone who has a clear idea of how this project could work writes some sort of proposal saying what type of game it is, how people will work on it together, how much effort will be needed and by whom, etc?

then we can judge things that are more concrete.

?

Is this what people really want though? I mean if you just wanted to be told what was going to happen without getting a chance get involved in the decisions wouldn’t you just go and get a corporate whore job where at least you got paid a fair whack for your time?

If that’s really the case, then fair enough.

Kev

I thought thats what I did in the RTS thread. The gritty details would be given when people show a Keen interest.

On to #563 then… ;D

Kev

how is that possible when 562 hasnt even been confirmed :stuck_out_tongue:

I also doubt anyone is interested in making a high quality RTS.

I think the idea is to find out what genre people are even interested in doing first, and then working out the details and duties. I don’t believe the purpose was to assign everyone specific duties but to collaborate on most things and see what fleshes out. the idea of the Wiki page seems like a perfect tool to use for this type of project.

I don’t mean that a single person should get everybody else to make their game, but I think we need to start somewhere that is clear enough that people know if the want to get involved or not (could be achieved by voting but it will take years at this rate). If people like the idea and want to get involved it is up to them but like bobjob I think someone needs to pick up that baton and start running.

people wont show a keen interest in a vague proposal though. you need to show you have energy and commitment yourself before you can expect other people (at least those who have seen a few of these sorts of things fail :D) to seriously consider joining you.

lets establish some vague guidelines (must take ~4 months, allow ~10 people to work on it), then hold a contest for convincing proposals (with details).

[quote]Incidentally I think a wiki is probably the best way to manage this
[/quote]
I think the group management will have to be one of the innovations of this/these projects.

As, inevitably, we are almost flaming one another over game concept, I’ll throw my ideas about how I would implement everything into the furnace:-

Space trader. I find these generally boring. Which is why I think its a good idea to do becuase we can think of novel ways of making it interesting. Also if devs are given specific sectors, then rivalry should naturally tend dev.s to create high quility sectors, evenly distributed throuout the galaxy.

Wacky idea 1 for alternative career paths to trading:- arcade games in space stations. If you are on the top score for that day for that game at that space station: receive a healthy reward (proportional to number of competitors). So one could travel around the galaxy playing games to make a living (if you are really good that is). Space races as well. To be fair I could not be arsed writing mini-games so?

Wacky idea 2: Everyone loves buying new ships. Why not make ships “truely” configurable, ergo almost infinite possible different ship configs. Pros: cool. Cons: ships will end up a bit blocky probably. You lose slick shaped ships.

Wacky idea 3: Lots of scripted encounters. Ooo I’ve come across a space-time anomaly I’ll mark it on my map. Science people, scan it. Oh your not experienced enough yet, I better scan some minerals to train you and come back. Oh I’ve come back. Scan the anomaly, my science officer says we need to get closer. Shit we’ve been sucked in and trapped in subspace. There is a strange planet here inhabited by people outside our concept of time, however, they will be bought/threatend/healed and release us or there are loads of wreckages of space ships. Get a boarding party ready and salvage away for clues as how to escape! Phew, we escaped science+=100, +10,000 star credits for turning in log info to star commands sceince/ 10,000 credits to sell the details to the war race for a possible enegry source for a weapon or whatever. Basically give a space sim a bit more of a star trek theme.

Generally I find space sims lack the impressiveness of space technology. Everyone is wizzing around in tiny ships with max. 10 crew. I want a crew of 800+ on my capitol ship (more engineers = faster, more tactical = powerful weapons etc.). Your starting ship should be about a thousandth of the size of a space station. The beginner should feel totally inadequate, and the end game you should feel king of the galaxy.

I don’t know if it should be too RPGy but maybe your could add some skills. Your main skill is deplomacy (=dialog options) as you are a Captain. You have a range of officers (if your ship is big enough). If they have a high skill you get “special” moves. Boost the effeciency of the engines for 20 sec. Overcharge the weapon systems. Customize a torpedo. You also assign crew under them, and the more crew the better the ship performs more mundane operations. Slight boost to engines, slightly better damage absorbtion. Faster shield recharge rate. Your officers increase experience by doing things, so a highly trained officer would be very valuable (so get a highly trained medic otherwise you will be very upset at some point)

As for implementation. I would be happy to take on alot of the physics. Space physics is pretty easy stuff anyway. Configurable ships are interesting. The design choices: if I mount my turning engines far from my center of gravity, they are much more effecient because the torque is proportioanl to distance from c.o.m. However, if they are away from the main hull, they are more vulnerable to attack (and losing your turning engines in combat = loss of turning).

Oh yeah controls. I hate real space physics. I liked original elite best. Have real physics with respect to forces (so engine positioning and weight distribution is important), but add a massive amount of dampning to velocity, so take your foot off the thruster and you slow down. Don’t have force dampning as an option on the dashboard, because when games do that I feel like I am cheating when I turn it on, or feel I could do better in combat with it turned off. Force all ships and players to follow the same unrealistic dynamics.

I liked elite II time speed options. I hate games that 1. reward you for delivering parcels across the galaxy when it takes “forever” to cross the galaxy. I don’t like the “make this part of the game tedious and reward players who can take it” game design pattern, thats for MMORPGs, not single players! Crossing the galaxy should be dangerous if the rewards are high, not time consuming. (so I would like a fully automatic autopilot). I’m thinking trading should be automatic in some way. Multiple ships is too much, but maybe you could charter a trade route or something. Dunno, need to think about this really.

Errr, thats probably enough chat for now. If I built an RTS it would be: copy as much functionality as is cognatively possible from supreme commander. Then add the option of saving base templates as build macros so the critical first 20 seconds of build orders can be deployed automatically. Add multiplayer ladder.

Just put your commander in a ‘mode’ make your army not consist out of tanks troops and what not but just commanders you assign resources and goals -> use your base to attack that base.

have base blue prints
have fleet / troop compositions
attack plans (which type of building unit’s to attack first at what position, rethread conditions)

Players controll commanders - location of bases - resource distribution - base types (research, gather resources, produce units, defence, recon / patrol(forward)) allow players to compose the unit’s at the commanders proposal. Perhaps have some personal guard units which you can actually control directly.

Thought just a simple war3 custom with wack and smash action ala (Dota, hero line defence, hero wars)… still seems compelling - probably easy to sell too(as in generate player base) - depends kinda on what kind of showcase you want: one to impress players or developers.

I liked the feeling of insignificance in Freespace 2 when you fly with your small ship from one end of the massive Colossus ship (or whatever it was) to the other. Or the size of Death Star when Millennium Falcon is drawn inside it in Star Wars episode IV. It should take more than a minute to move past a large space station or ship.

That would also bring more of a Star Trek theme, when individual officers would make a difference. :slight_smile:

Like building things with LEGO blocks. ;D Or like choosing the equipments in MechWarrior 2 (as far as I can remember).

On the idea of customsizeable ships. I agree being able to customise ships would add to the game. Perhaps we should take it a little further and have ‘professions’. Such that an engineer can create and sell components for space craft. e.g. different engines etc. A “ship builder” can take these components as inputs and build a space craft which they can sell. The average gamer can then go to a ship yard, see what is on sale and at buy the craft they want.

This idea can of course go all the way to the raw materials. i.e. mining asteroids -> ore -> refined metal -> basic component -> complex component -> ship

If there are opposing factions (aliens?) then the ability to create/build custom ships using resources that are gathered/plundered would create incentive to create more effiecent/ powerful ships.

We are rapidly feature creeping in the direction of eve…

I have never played eve… is your comment positive or negative?

My personal bias is toward games with great story ( half life, freelancer, the longest journey) so I would be pushing for some story component.

Not to throw snow onto your ideas but once again, strong leadership is needed. It’s fine that everyone adds in their ideas to solve problems. But with a 4 month dev period, going feature crazy at the design stage will likely mean not much gets done.

Seen it happen a million times, serious dedication is needed to see a game from concept to playable alpha. Everyone’s got game ideas, everyone in our generation does. Making it fun and playable with no bugs is what separates idea orgies from actual game makers.

I’m Chinese, I dig the whole idea of holding back all my crazy game ideas and just doing my tasks well as a gear in the machine. When I feel confident about finally making a solid game design doc, I’ll voice it. Until then, I’m quite happy to help out with what I’m good at now, which is modeling.

Someone needs to take the lead on this space trader/sand box idea. It can be easily done. Check out battle station on Facebook, the game’s slow and full of glitches, but hundreds of thousands play it as a casual game. A game doesn’t need 1000 cool things, it just needs a few cool things done right. See : Halo. I’m not saying not to include something’s that’s never been done, but re-inventing the wheel is wasting effort when there’s proven game concepts to build upon.

Feature creep is what kills these sorts of projects. People bringing ideas to the table (good thing) and often end up getting added to the spec simply because they are good ideas (bad thing) despite the fact they may not be good for the project as a whole. You really need a fixed spec and fixed deadline and some way of staying on track. Eve is a huge MMORPG and is simply not achievable by a loosely organized collection of people (regardless of how talented they are).

Despite how glamorous these features I think either of them will kill the project:

ANY real time networked multiplayer support.
Highly customizable ship building.

We should stick to what we can do best: unique style, interesting and fun gameplay.