Apache quits Java executive commitee

I strongly agree. One of the main reasons I work with Java.

I also agree with Cas. I have no interest whatsoever in browser applications or games. They seem silly, and I never use them, let alone develop them myself.
That also includes Google top-of the-line browser apps, like google docs which mimics office/open office, which is horrible. And also gmail. I use gmail, but with an email client, thunderbird in my case, these overly extravagant ajax pages just get me confused beyond believe.

Also I cannot remember, that I ever played a serious game in a browser. By serious I mean, not a minigame/fungame. Something with a long single player, maybe a story.
Of course that may change when people use cloud computing with services like Gaikai. But that’s obviously a different topic altogether.

Flash doesn’t have a noticeably better penetration than Java, you’re joking. Flash is not as reliable as Java especially on non-Windows platforms. Java Web Start is far from perfect, it has its own bugs but it is a nice way of not being imprisoned in the browsers and their own bugs.

If you include MSIE 6 & 7, it is simply wrong.

No, Java rocks ;D even thoug it has some lovely bugs :stuck_out_tongue:
Desktop shortcuts working on KDE with Java Web Start? Never.

JavaFX 2.0 has a few interesting features concerning sound and video support.

Java 1.4 was already kicking the ass of C++ in some situations 8)

It might be really good especially for Mac users.

This steward is silly enough to drop JOGL and is not very kind with the open source community (look at Hudson, OpenOffice…).

I’m still waiting for some fixes since 2006… but it is going to be better.

Poisonville is quite good :wink:

+1

Btw there is typo in my last post. I meant to type that I’ve had more serious bugs with Java, not more bugs.

[quote=gouessej]If you include MSIE 6 & 7, it is simply wrong.
[/quote]
IE 6 and 7 usage is so small now it’s not uncommon to see it’s browser usage only taking up a couple of percent; even less then 1% isn’t that strange any more (although it depends heavily on who your audience is).

Maybe because Java allows to do more serious things ;D

IE6 has still around 5% in Czech Republic and IE7 about 10%. There are also companies that have 100% IE of one version (including IE6). And browser apps are indeed crap, doesn’t matter if Google or someone else is behind it or not. Nothing beats native apps in performance, capabilities and integration, also client-side apps are more stable (eg. GUIs typically work more as expected than DHTML/AJAX heavy apps) and not dependant on network latency or requiring to be online.

Fyi, any browser that supports WebGL has things like the Int32Array object baked in. Combined with exclusive use of shaders and all of your data will be pushed by the GPU.

The problem always was getting the data to the GPU in the first place. It’s only just become almost quick enough in JDK7 with the server VM :-X

And commercially, the once mighty Czech republic accounts for < 1% of my revenues from Puppygames so I wouldn’t be all that worried about losing 10% of that 1% :slight_smile:

Cas :slight_smile:

I always love how everyone can cut based solely on percents :slight_smile: Especially Linux users are being often cut since they’re 1% or so (at least here), but they are very active vocally and typically they’re 25% of customers (other 25% mac and 50% windows) in indie games (or similar big numbers).

Anyway, I was not talking about games, but generally, and it depends on application, whether it’s for public usage, or eg. corporate intranet application. And Czech Republic was just example (because I know where the stats are) that the global stats are nice, but may not be relevant in various parts of the world or for your target audience.

Well, as we’re also talking about software that costs no money at all, the Czechs have only themselves to blame :wink:

Cas :0

These numbers are in the same range as the rest of the world: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_explorer.asp

Heh. Yea, V8 is pretty much like that small junk-free VM you always wanted. :slight_smile:

By the way, the Windows binary of the V8 shell is only 1.5mb in size (lzma’d 500kb).

It should be pronounceable. Talking about LWJGL is amazingly painful. Adding one extra letter won’t help. :stuck_out_tongue:

Scroll to the bottom, it reads “These statistics are based on W3Schools users.”

That means isn’t not representative for the regular user at all.

Well, for me, it’s all about paying customers. Still got IE6 == skinflint with no money, sod off.

Cas :slight_smile:

hehe, was thinking the same thing.

Something should be done to make LWJGL easier to pronounce/remember, maybe drop the ‘W’, since lightweight is technically one word, so you end up with LJGL.

It’s not really very L any more either. It’s just JGL. Which would work nicely for javascript too wouldn’t it :slight_smile:

oNyx - you got anything cool working with a standalone v8? Care to share?

Cas :slight_smile:

But it’s also open source, so why not add in an O to get Java Open Game Library :slight_smile:

(whisper: this is only meant to be humorous, I am not biased towards either JOGL or LWJGL)

[quote=“jezek2,post:25,topic:36029”]
I disagree. Anyone who has used a PC has had native apps run slowly, buggy and crash on them. I’d personally say that brower apps going wrong is typically less intrusive; you just hit F5.

Today I’d agree that good native apps beat good browser apps. But within only 6 months all of the main browsers will have good HTML 5 and CSS 3 support, hardware accelerated graphics and a JIT compiler for the JS (even for all three of those IE). Things like WebSockets will also make AJAXy sites much nicer.

There are people today who play most of their games in the browser. I personally use Google Docs instead of MS Office as I mainly work on a very low end machine. It’s just really nice not to have to have applications installed.

I’ve written applets that work fine on Windows and will take down the entire browser on MacOS. I’ve written applets that run fine on Vista and Win7, but crawls on XP and Linux (same hardware).

Best thing to ever happen to the JCP.

I mean really, apache guys wanted to make a point, point made and now we can move forward and can crank out specifications again.

“but these will suck”
who-fucking-cares.

Let me point out:
EJB there where other versions once… which didn’t make all ppl happy which gave birth to spring. Now take a look at version 3 -> Good or bad specs it will lead to improvement.
JPA, that wasn’t invented there, hibernate anyone? -> apparently things don’t need to start in the JCP.
Countless JSR’s, who never got beyond a reference implementation and some didn’t even got to one. -> Just because the JCP touched up on it doesn’t make it law.

Can other ppl write specs and can these then be implemented by others?

The only thing that has changed at all is that language features now actually get run through he JCP which sun used to send down from the mountain. I mean, I like generics, but if others where to believed no one would ever use java 5… so who is using a version java 5 or newer? hands please!

Besides even if they mess it up beyond everything imaginable, it only after that they’ve done that that we have to wonder about forking or migrating away.

Tried to compile V8 for some ARMv5 (ARMv5TEJ/ARM926EJ-S [less obscure: for the GP2X Wiz homebrew handheld]) a while ago. After countless hours I finally succeeded, but the compiled binary failed at basic math. E.g. Math.log(5) worked correctly, but Math.log(5)+Math.log(5) didn’t. Everything else did work though. I gave up at that point. Since I didn’t know what the f- I was supposed to do about that.

Well, ARM support (or more precisely: support for older uncool ARM CPUs) was a bit lacking back then. It probably works fine now.

The plan was to create something simple which supports just enough of Events, Image, Audio, and Canvas to create a game. This would have allowed me to run my regular code on this device as well.

After making the V8 shell run on that device the next step would have been a prototype of this “game runner” with Java, Rhino, LWJGL, and Slick. This would have served as some kind of proof of concept. It would have also shown which pieces are absolutely necessary and how everything fits together.

The next step would have been to recreate this with C++ (GLES 1.1, libpng, libjpeg, and all that crap). Possibly with the help of other Wiz community members.

Maybe I should give it another try. The only similar thing on that device is Pygame (CPython based), but it’s unfortunately too slow for anything (and I also kinda dislike Python). As we all know, V8 is quite a bit faster than CPython. Even back then V8 would have been fast enough for most classic genres like platformers or puzzle games (CPython wasn’t and still isn’t fast enough).

A friend of mine did succeed with something similar though:

http://www.phoboslab.org/log/2010/10/impact-for-ios

Generally I do think that it would be nice to have some “game VM” for ARM based devices, Windows, Mac, Linux, and whatever else there might be. But I’d always try to mirror the browser environment as closely as possible. For one it means you can also use that code online (well… duh), but most importantly it also means that you can develop with browsers which is pretty convenient.

That is why I don’t write applets :stuck_out_tongue: