Have you seen the current installer for Adobe’s java-replacement (AIR) ?
http://tmachine1.dh.bytemark.co.uk/images/AIR%20install%20question.PNG
yummy!
can you post a screenshot of the equivalent in java?
Interesting…
That is indeed much nicer than the rather sterile Java version. I wish Sun would get some real UI designers in to do this stuff. Especially do something to the Metal L&F. Like, throw it away, and replace it with Alloy.
Cas 
If my past webstart experience is anything to go by, a large number of people will see the big red warning text and refuse to go any further. (Although it is presented in a slightly less scary form than webstart).
IMNSHO, I’d go for removing the thinking that led to the “Closed, will not fix” state of this one:
http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=5059506
Showing a java icon in the system tray when even the tiniest applet is started on a web page is not going to help the java brand or whatever. Get out of the way of the actual applet/webstart application, please! And what’s up with “This is not a bug. Java cup icon provides users with easy access to java console, info about version of java they are currently running, visit java.sun.com web page, etc.”? Some people might actually want to reserve the system tray for important stuff, you know. Sadly, java is definitely not the only application that spams the system tray, and I can only be relieved that I’m running an OS where it’s considerably harder and considered bad form to clutter the equivalent of the system tray, without the user’s consent. I do worry about the customers of our games, especially now that we’re experimenting with a more web-ish form of distribution and thus can’t control the appearance of the tray icon.
(To keep with the thread subject: Flash got this right, too)
- elias
Indeed, it would be better to build this access to the console etc. into the browser menu. At the very least let the applet programmer decide whether or not to show the icon.
That, or through the control panel, as the bug points out. The stuff you can do from the icon is very much in the control panel category.
- elias
Completely understand the points here, and don’t disagree with them necessarily. The big difference between the way Sun has approached Java vs. Adobe and Flash is that Sun has been trying to build a consumer demand for Java. Flash does not. I would venture to say that 95% of consumers don’t know what Flash really is nor do they seek out Flash specific content. Java has a much greater brand recognition among consumers. Believe it or not, Java as a technology has the same level of consumer recognition as Nike does. So the goals have been different.
Look, I won’t make excuses for Sun here, save one. The management that controls Java now, and for less than a year so far, makes it a totally new ballgame. Believe me when I say that this group KNOWS what is driving Java on the desktop. One exec even stated to me, “You’re right, games are one of the biggest uses for Java in overall consumer usage.” (Or something to that effect). I’m not saying that everything is going to change overnight, but I do think that the re-engagement of the consumer and media markets that was demonstrated at JavaOne this year was great.
As for the system tray being cluttered with a Java icon, that only occurs while the app is running, right? After you exit the icon goes away. Not a biggie IMHO.
-Chris
For comparative purposes, heres a fantastic example of Sun gui design at work (from a previous thread):
http://tmachine1.dh.bytemark.co.uk/images/AIR%20install%20question.PNG
:
ChrisM: No biggie compared to a permanent icon, however compared to the security dialog, I think it is a biggie. I can only speak for myself personally, but I frown upon applications taking unnecessary liberties, like a mere game showing an icon in the system tray (willingly or not).
I do have high hopes for the new ways to do business at Sun, however, and I hope that the GPL license will keep features only benefitting SUN as a company away from java.
- elias
Best
Wallpaper
Ever
In
A
Thread
On
JGO.
I am so stressing over the new NiGHTS game for the Wii, it’s not funny.
-Chris
The Sun dialog shows exactly the same information as the Flash one, it just doesn’t look very pretty or modern, is all.
BTW, Orangy - in your experience if users see the red triangle and click CANCEL, that’s good. They need to be educated only to allow signed applications to run.
Cas
The dialog looks nice, and although Adobe beats Sun in design and user experience all the time, having a dialog with a big red “X” when you try to install is actually a bad user experience. Although this may be Pownce’s fault rather than Adobe’s.
Edit: In other words, it would be a better user experience to have a green “ok to install” image or no dialog at all.
Great! I look forward to seeing the increasing pace of concrete benefits of the new arrangement.
Until then, I’ll still throw out datapoints like AIR as a heads-up: this is what the consumer experience is like, be aware. I would prefer that the java experience were better, I would do anything to achieve that (because it’s cheaper for me to develop and deploy in java ;))…
I disagree, brackeen… I believe that unsigned applications are the scourge of the internet. Signed ones should install and run silently unless you specifically set it up so that you want to see the dialog. Unsigned ones should always display a scary dialog.
Cas
I wouldn’t even know where to start to get my application properly signed. You have to buy some $10000 key thingie?
I think the whole signing thing has been done poorly. Since everything is unsigned - even with official drivers on Windows XP - users get into the habit of ignoring these messages, hence reducing the value of it. In Java Web Start practically everything is unsigned that I have seen it for, so if something harmful comes to the user they are more likely to run it.
It’s around $100/year. The price is pretty ridiculous for what they are actually offering.
There used to be certs for $20/year, which were good enough for Java stuff, but those certificate authorities scrapped em. Yea, right… why should they ask for $20 if they can milk $100 out of you? Verisign, Thawte etc really deserve some regulative slapping.
There is also a free certificate that can be used. It won’t display your name though, it displays “Thawte Freemail member” instead. But otherwise its a full certificate.