I think you could probably start a new thread with this comment. It may not get much attention as it seems a bit off topic. But yeah its an interesting point and I dont wanna ignore you as it seems to be what upsets you about this community so…One good thing about youtube and such, is that when you comment on a topic its easy for others to get a feel for what you are doing/into by just clicking on your name. were as this is barely possible with javaGaming.org as you can only get a little bit from peoples sigs.
You have a point there, so I started this thread: http://www.java-gaming.org/index.php/topic,20207.0.html
Anyway, yeah. Youtube is a great model for what web 2.0 is, and I think we would benefit from a site like it for java greatly.
Kongregate for Java? Makes sense. It would be better if Kongregate widened out slightly to do Flash or Java minigames, but I don’t see that happening.
From the developer perspective, knowing what tech is used for which game is good to know 
I was going to add a ‘More games’ page to my Web site. I like JGT and it seems to be a good candidate to this list. Currently, not all of new visitors stay to play my games. As they leave anyway, I do not think that it hurts me if they get an extra option to go to JGT 
I also agree, this is a great idea.
Even though my site is and will be dedicated to hosting the java games I create and may be vying for users. I believe its great for java sites to share each others links and promote each other. I’ll put the beer down and get to cracking on this right away. I need to add a link list to my site for just such an occasion.
JGT really does a great job and a great service and the site looks very good.
Dunno what to say really… I’ve posted less and less on JGO though I still check it about, oooh, 20 times a day.
I have a few thoughts about it.
One thought is, that this started out as a developers site, for people interested in using Java as the primary development tool for games. We swapped tidbits of information, and bug reports, and occasionally Sun noticed something too. However I think that as the forum grew it suffered some organisational pains and got split up into far too many subtopics (especially considering the number of actual regular posters).
The whole Java Game Tome thing is nice and all but… it’s a consumer site, for people interested in playing games… except: consumers generally don’t care what technology goes into making a game, they just want to play something that works. Clearly the games on JGT are just developer trinkets though - for that reason I’ve entirely distanced myself from it as I don’t want our games appearing alongside what amounts to developer experiments and freeware as we’d make the rest of them look like shit. It’s harsh criticism but entirely justified. Those are developers games made for developers. If you want to really understand what goes into making games… well, I was going to say there are forums like the indiegamer forums except that a similar transition seems to be occurring over there too: the old timers don’t post much any more, forums flooded with n00bs, and generally the signal-to-noise ratio has decreased to the point where there’s generally no reason to use it much any more.
There’s almost absolutely nobody really trying to make professional games on JGO, which is a little odd, isn’t it?
So I think my rambling and ranting is trying to say, in a roundabout way, where’s the focus? I mean, who’s it aimed at? What’s it for? Start by defining that and then rebuild it from scratch and if anything doesn’t contribute directly to that focus, ditch it.
I expect this post looks massively harsh and arrogant and I expect gouessej to get extra cross but there you have it.
Cas
I believe JFG is part of goussej’s job.
also I think he works on tuer at work? cause he has talked about his funding a few times.
As a developer, I definitely love seeing what other java game devs are doing. And for that, forums like this are awesome.
But the java game tome looks like it’s trying to target end users… if the only reason a user finds my games is that it’s a java game, I’m doing something very wrong.
My applet games regularely get referred to as “flash games”, and I consider that a good thing. It means the experience is so transparent to the user that he or she doesn’t realize that it’s a java applet. I’m not going to go out of my way to inform the user that it’s made in java, and it’s definitely not my job to spread the word about how many OTHER great java games there are, as those are direct competition and often of very poor quality.
I will, however, link to thinks I like, regardless of what technology it is made in.
Hear hear!
Cas
I already have JGO in my new website’s link section. I’ll see if i can fit the banner in.
I’d be great if JGO had a page with the banners that explained how to help advertise it, because i remember looking for that page when it got on the link page on my new website. However, i get very little pageviews myself, so i’m not sure how much help it will do.
However, while i can’t remember why, i do have a feel that JGO is a dead project, where requests and ideas are ignored.
Regardless of it being justified or not i think you should look into why i felt this way in the first place. A bit of detective work to do
- Scarzzurs
Chopped off Duke: he makes the button look to busy.
Cut off the top back line: I think it takes away to smoothness of the button.
But most importantly there is a gramatical error: “a the”
To reiterate what others have said, JGT doesn’t offer much value to consumers. Consumers will only come to the site if you offer specific value, like in-depth reviews (jayisgames) or quick links to the newest games on the internet (addictinggames). Consumers won’t care what technology the games are, and might even be peeved if the site excludes their favorite flash games.
That said, it can be a highly valued resource for Java game developers. Highlighting the best quality Java games will encourage other Java developers to do better. (That’s one reason why Flash games are usually better - more competition forces developers to do better). And games that include source code can help Java game developers learn. If you’re going to go that route, though, you’ll need to also link to tutorials, demos, howtos, etc.
(To nit-pick, my UX gripe with the site is you have no idea what you’re going to get when you click “Play.” An applet? A webpage with a download link? A direct download? A JNLP? Something that requires a trust dialog? Something 4K or something 40MB? There’s no clue. The “play” button appearance should in some way communicate what experience the user is going to get.)
First of all, I’d like to say that the JGT is not dead! I just didn’t get around to implement some new functionality. The goal is to make it more interactive and also make it easier for people to post comments and play games. I am working on games of my own, so my apologies if things are progressing slowly at the moment ;D
Also, I am little confused as to why people still argue about the fact that the Java Game Tome is about Java!? The whole point of the site is to have an alternative to what else is out there. I don’t hear anyone bickering about Kongregate that only uses Flash for that matter. Or, what would have been the point making another site like jayisgames or addictinggames? Consider it an extension to JGO if you like with the goal to get players play our games? Now, the Java Game Tome has its limitations but at least it is unique in its ways.
I also put some banners to use onto the FAQ page: http://www.javagametome.com/faq.html
http://www.javagametome.com/image/banner/JGTBanner460x55.jpg
http://www.javagametome.com/image/banner/JGTBanner468x60.jpg
http://www.javagametome.com/image/banner/JGTBanner728x90.jpg
Thanks Kingaschi for the banners. I’ll link back from my site soon for sure.
There’re some different types of negative comments about JGT. The main one I retain is the fact that Java is emphasized in the game site, which doesn’t fit well from the consumer perspective. While Java game developers can feel proud about that, unfortunately the Java name can and I’m sure still has a bad connotation to the consumer. Long time ago, the slowness and bad client side integration of Java has made huge damage to the reputation of the technology, and for justified reasons during many years. Fortunately and obviously these weaknesses were solved several years ago and with the advent of Java 6u10+, the situation can only improve. But the bad Java reputation on the client side still persist more or less. Having said that, I’m seriously wondering if JGT should be renamed by removing the word Java in the new name. OK I already hear people on this thread complaining that I should spread word on Java everywhere and not being afraid of advertising it. To those people, please reconsider my arguments here.
To continue in this way, I have the strong belief that in life when you’ve made something really good, it shows by itself. And this principle applies to good and great Java games too obviously. Then having those games on JGT and having the capacity to advertise the site, you build slowly good reputation about Java games. People will start realizing that Java is doing amazing things in games. Not all Java games are good or great on JGT? Yes that’s true but not an issue here; JGT has a rating system. The probably missing thing about not enough good games (and here I don’t want to insult anybody…there’re varied levels of experienced game developers) is how to categorize them. Categories/sections like prototype, amateur, pro, in development, beta, etc. Having games of low quality doesn’t mean that great games can’t coexist with such as system. The site needs to make clear that not all games are from pros or commercials.
EDIT: I now link back JGT from Fun Toboggan (my site): http://www.freewebs.com/jeromeblouin/links.htm
I’ve not posted much here but it looks like a relatively healthy online community compared to some others I’ve had the misfortune to be part of.
To be honest I am a professional Java developer in real life so I don’t expect to learn much Java coding stuff here.
To reiterate what’s been said, Java games development is not that different from games dev in some other language. We use it cos it’s a great language with great support, features and libraries and amazing portability. But still, most games development is just generic software development, you are good at it if you are a good engineer generally, and bad at it if you are not, not really that much to do with Java. Even in those areas where games development is a bit specialised, e.g. graphics, chances are if you’re using java you’re just using a binding to another technology, e.g. OpenGL, so you would go on OpenGL forums to figure out any issues you had.
But it’s fine – there are just enough java-game specific issues to keep the forum going and let’s face it we get slagged off pretty badly by developers using other languages (java is still widely but wrongly thought of as an inefficient, quiche language) so we might as well stick together!
I have tried to give a bit of constructive feedback on a few different games here and elsewhere. I think it’s good to give encouragement to others and also I am interested in seeing novel gameplay ideas being developed.
I anticipate that I will have problems getting feedback on my project, because although it is complete / fairly polished as a multiplayer game, it is hard to get people to commit to be online at the same time. I am now switching focus to the single player aspects of my project, I think this will greatly increase the likelihood of a download.
josh
The portability is complete shit. Don’t fool yourself!
Cas
Write once - test everywhere!
But it is more portable than most other environments.
I had a pretty annoying issue recently porting to the mac. Basically, I was using Batik to render some SVGs with perfectly scaled anti-aliasing. So, I bundled the pure java Batik jars with the game. But when OS X creates a .app on the desktop to start my webstart, it starts java in some screwed up environment which prevents Batik accessing its own resources. But the problem is absent if you start the web app from the OS X java util. On the basis of that I ended up ripping out Batik and doing without it – not ideal but it works.
But after resolving that issue my game worked fine on the mac.
josh
emmm, excuse me but this is getting rather off topic right? I suggest starting a new thread if you wish.
I don’t want the JGT to change its name, it does not solve any problem (“reculer pour mieux sauter” as we say in French). We should do our best to improve the reputation of Java instead of complaining about it and hiding the fact that our games use it. I won’t reconsider anything!