[quote]I speak as someone who tossed a coin to decide whether to read fine-art or computer-science, and has taught other people to do both; I can vouch that it takes approximately equal effort to become a good programmer as it does to become a good artist.
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So are you the person, who could teach me how to become a great game graphics designer or do you agree, that we’d just need a place, where we can bring both groups together? 
Points well taken…
However, search the Net for topics on game programming, then search the net for topics on game art. Go to the book store and look for books on game programming, then look for books on game art.
All I was saying is that I think there is much more material out there that makes it easier for one so inclined to learn game programming vs. game art. (Side note: I do know of one really cool book from Charles River on creating game characters in 3D… )
As for a place to meet, I would love to see that happen more. There are a growing number of efforts on the net where this has happened for example:
www.garagegames.com is a perfect example of this.
As for the post… I was speaking from my own experience. It is rare for an indie team to actually complete a game. Life tends to get in the way when you aren’t getting paid many times, hence the Just do it comment. I meant you really have to stay commited to it to finish.
Sorry for the confusion.
Not bad…but it seems the site doesn’t really take it far enough? It seems you simply post a link to a project? It would be nice, if such a site would also support communication a bit and even support the actual development a bit more? Maybe some Sourceforge feature?
But thanks for the link. I was not aware of this site before…
Ciao,
Andreas
No problem…
I think it would be a great idea to start a site to do exactly what you suggest though.
It really is a great idea. Sorry I was so pessimistic in my previous (long winded post). I really do wish it was easier to find artists to work on games.
I have been a programmer for a long time and know how long it takes to become good at it. I didn’t mean to trivialize the amount of time and effort and talent it takes to become good at it. No offense meant.
-Z
[quote]No problem…
I think it would be a great idea to start a site to do exactly what you suggest though.
It really is a great idea. Sorry I was so pessimistic in my previous (long winded post). I really do wish it was easier to find artists to work on games.
I have been a programmer for a long time and know how long it takes to become good at it. I didn’t mean to trivialize the amount of time and effort and talent it takes to become good at it. No offense meant.
-Z
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I don’t think, that you were overly pesimistic. Take a look at
I always liked the concept of this site, although it lacks a couple of features IIRC…
Ciao,
Andreas
I absolutely agree with Zane–it takes just as much effort to create a good artist as it takes to create a good programmer. It’s perhaps easier to get cracked on programming, with the abundance of programming packages out there and languages available, but to progress from a general, a-dime-a-dozen developer into even just somebody with a good coding style and clear, unintangled ideas about what you want and what it is to do, that takes years of true professional experience and relentless efforts on studying from seniors. It really isn’t something that can be picked up in “21 days”, like the dummy, nutshell, 21-days series promoted. And even with the aid of experience, not everybody will advance with the same pace either. And of course, it is also true that not everybody is made to be an artist or programmer. The high-level designing concept is just as talent-demanding and intuition-intensive as a good graphics design would per visual artist. Too bad we only have a limited life and usually can’t be a cross-sector expert on all that we prefer to excel in.
Yeah I wish I had an extra life 
I can do good quality art and entry level java. Any time I work on one the other is stalled, of course. Being a horrible procrastinator doesnt help either
Tzan,
Wanna share some of your art with the folks?
I bet you could find a programmer right fast if you so desired.
I was sharing for two years with the Magicosm project. Actually doing game design and art. I left the team a few months ago. I’ve spent a considerable amount of time over the years designing board games and testing them, 15, nothing published. I think the best way to learn game design is making board games, since it doesnt take much time at all to make the pieces. So you focus your effort on design rather than construction. I also did a C game on the Atari back in 1991. At the moment I’m just hanging out and enjoying not contributing to a project That might change if I see something that looks like it has a good team and might be finished this decade
I am actively trying to get a paid dev job and have a few resumes out there. But of course I said that 20 years ago too
Jobs I’ve been turned down for:
Game designer
Junior designer
Content creator
Artist
Tester
Intern Content creator
I’m waiting for a janitor job to be posted so I can be rejected for that too
Wanted: Janitor to sweep, mop, and clean toilets.
Tzan need not apply.
Haha!
Thanks, my life is now complete !
[quote]Yeah I wish I had an extra life
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You get one at 1,000,000,000,000 points.
Ahhhhh! cool, thanks!
Uhmmm how do I get points? ???
[quote]Uhmmm how do I get points? ???
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Usually you have to take her out to dinner, buy her roses, hold the door for her, things like that.
Yeah, that’s what sometimes works for me.
I can’t find the score display, but I’m pretty sure my average score is < 0 
[quote]I was sharing for two years with the Magicosm project. Actually doing game design and art.
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Ok, I think I have an idea here that could be good enough for this Vodafone challenge as an example. If you want to hear it, mail me at mail@andreas-rueckert.de
I’ve always been having game ideas, but they don’t truly materialize. Now only if I had experience working in a game company, but my field of skill is focused on Java, and there just aren’t as many big, sophisticated games out there written entirely in Java. Even if I can program and can draw at the same time, it takes more than just the intuition of being able to influence the point of your pen and able to construct working code to put together a game project that actually works, let aside attractive. Yet I haven’t found a good book out there who can encompass all the fields that a true game designer need to excel in in order to become even just a passable one (which is more or less like a jack-of-all-trades for that sake). Therefore, my opinion tends to be that you can’t even get your foot wet in that career unless you have had some real experience (somebody’s getting ready to hoot here, probably), and not having prior wet-footing experience means you are automatically rejected to get in the career (an altogether-too-familiar scenario, somehow) field anyway, unless you have spent tens of thousands of dollars studying in institutions like DigiPen or something (which barely helps you to get a bit of dew on your toes). So, my biggest concern is that, however enthusiasm I may possess for that goal, I’m more or less faced with a deadlock here.
-M
re: Points. I need a woman to score points? No wonder I dont have any points :-/
gallycat : One way you can get Java experience is to work on a volunteer project. The client programmer of Magicosm lives in the Boston area (I do too) and they have an open request for help in the Volunteer section of this forum. You need to spend at least 10 hours a week on it. Only ask if you are serious, they dont want to get people up to speed then have them wander away after 2 weeks.
Thanks, I’ll give it look. It’s a good thing that it’s summer now and I don’t have big jobs pending at the moment so I can probably devote some hours into it. But when September starts… well, I’ll have to see. Thanks for the hint, however. Do they truly need Java developers? (Most games steer clear of that lang cuz of the poor performance)
What a silly question, this site is called, Java Games Forums, after all. :-X