The main problem with this community

General Discussions
#41

Okay, I changed the topic name back to what it was at bob’s request.

The problem with Java4k is that it only happens once a year. Not only that, but if someone open sources their 4k game other people will clone it, and than it might not get as high on the contests. Infact, people might even clone it without the source if they can. Maybe if there was a 4k for each month, it’d be different. nothing big, just like 5 games and two judges. It could be simple.

Anyway, DzzD, the problem is that my game was made sure to not crash the browser, looked good, had a screenshot, and ran normally 90% of the time. Still people didn’t comment on it except rarely. People are commenting on it more now, and I’m going to implement what they suggested. I’m just working on a Object Editor for my Map Editor right now, so I can’t respond right away. I know that makes me a little hypocrite, and I am very sorry and hope that these fine people won’t lose interest by the time I update.

The main problem is also that I can’t/couldn’t get feedback anywhere. I would expect JGO to be a lot more helpful because they really need a killer app for Java, and if no one tries than it won’t happen. I hate to sound like Bob from Bob’s Game, but it does seem like no one else is trying to make that killer app for Java, so I would expect a lot more attention, encouragement, and most importantly: ideas.

It’s my belief that to make a good game you have to follow this code:

while(game.notGood)
{
if(game.getFeedback(User) == bad);
reviseGame();

 else
 game.setIsGood(true);

}

#42

[quote]but it does seem like no one else is trying to make that killer app for Java
[/quote]
ever heard of Virus Effect?

#43

Actually, no. >_>

#44

lol, cyanPrime you started this thread because you didnt like how people werent taking interest in other peoples work, and you dont know what virus effect is. :stuck_out_tongue:

#45

Oh, THAT game. I remembered playing it, but not the name x_x
I didn’t comment on it bvefore, however. I’ve fixed that now: http://www.java-gaming.org/index.php/topic,18645.msg162634.html#msg162634

#46

I really like JGO and I find out a lot of usefull stuff here :slight_smile:

Some of the thing that I would like to see around would be more artist/game designer. There is a lot of good programmer around, but not much of the other people need to make great game. Many people here are developping their artistic skills at the same time than their programming skills, in order to be able to make their game. That may just be too much for a hobby.

I really like the idea of the community project that what shout a while ago (I hope they are doing fine). Community project are really a thing we should look more into. I know that many people could just do a great game alone and that it would be easier to make it alone than in a team, but really working alone to make a RPG or something like that… Maybe a good start would be to make a really simple game but in group. A game that already everybody could do alone in a couple of week/month but instead trying to make it in a group to devellop your skill in that area.

For the moment, I’m still stuck in the ‘‘noob’’ phase but I hope to be able to help the community later :slight_smile:

#47

there is a great lil thread here about people who like making video game art:
http://forum.deviantart.com/galleries/videogames/

#48

So what? So people didn’t want to try your game out and offer comments. What should JGO do about it? Nothing. You can’t force people to do something they don’t want to do. So, all of your points about screen shot, not crashing browsers, etc. is moot. Putting in artificial gates to force people to participate is the FASTEST way to kill a community. And there are plenty of examples of awesome Java games, hope yours will live up to your own hype.

Perhaps people don’t think your game is the killer app? That’s ok, and perhaps yours is. But that does not matter. And, you are kind of channeling a bit of Bob, now that you mention it…

[quote]It’s my belief that to make a good game you have to follow this code:

while(game.notGood)
{
if(game.getFeedback(User) == bad);
reviseGame();

 else
 game.setIsGood(true);

}
[/quote]
I shouldn’t have responded so quickly yesterday. It was late, I was tired, and I have had more time to sort this out.

I am not going to divest from JGO. However, I will be looking to take volunteers who want to run the day to day, make improvements, build features, artwork, etc. and co-run the site. Keep sending the PMs :slight_smile:

EDIT: BTW, and don’t take this the wrong way, but you have only been a member here for 2 months. To come in to a community and expect the feedback, and in your words, the attention you feel your efforts deserve is a bit… unreasonable. There are many other seasoned vets of JGO here that get the attention because they have earned the reputation and right within the community.

#49

And I stand by that assertion. No one is required to help me. People can complain all they want! Just as I am not required to pay attention to every single complaint that comes in here. However, I am much more willing to listen when the complaint is followed by the offer to help. Case in point, some members wanted certain icons changed to make the site more readable. They made them and I implemented them.

The difference between JGT and JGO is that you wanted any and all volunteers to adhere to your philosophical POV when it came to the site and that caused a rift in your own community. What is happning here is in no way what happened to the first JGT community. Not at all.

[quote]I have the same feeling. It is important to get some feedback and some help, it is a nice place. I don’t think JGO sucks. I don’t think that the JGT sucks even though I disagree with the way it has been done.
Lol, tact is not my cup of tea but I test almost all Java games here even though I don’t have enough time to post more frequently.
[/quote]
Tact is not necessarily a requirement and sometimes it’s the lack of that helps get the point across :wink:

And, BTW, I agree that JGO does not suck. :slight_smile:

#50

I think that JGO as a forum might be a bit too restrictive.

Initiatives outside JGO to add these features often die a quick death due to lack of visits, resulting in lack of motivation to improve.

If we could extend JGO with new features, within this forum, it could really grow in quality.

Now that I think about it, the only thin we’d really need (to get started) it READ_ONLY access to the members.username column and some function that validates a certain user/pass combo.

With that, extremely sparse (and safe) data, we could quickly grow our own extentions/features, which might get integrated in the forums, sooner or later, when ChrisM deems it should. To prevent poor apps from overloading the server, we could simply inject content with ajax, from our own servers.

Possible simple features would be:

  • game dev journals
  • awarding certain replies with… ‘points’ in certain categories (only positive feedback)
  • screenshot of the day/week/month

All those features eventually result in members wanting to gain in reputation, yielding higher quality of postings.

We’d just need a tiny bit of access to usernames and a query like ‘is this user/pass valid’ in the JGO database.

I for one would be very interested in extending some functionality here.

#51

Do you really know what I like? I don’t want to be aggressive; therefore, I prefer refrain from criticizing what you have done (I don’t know what I could criticize as I like the Puppy Games). The source code of TUER is even used in some lessons of OpenGL in a few European universities, one of which is located in Portugal. You’re not aware of the situation, the “wall” sometimes speaks and it is quite pleasant except when some members say that my game is only a shit with OpenGL underneath. I think that such behaviors may encourage some people to leave the JGO.

You’re wrong, I didn’t want anyone to adhere to any philosophical POV, I was interested in a subdivision of the community that already agreed with the previous rules of the JGT. I know it is not the same situation in the JGO. Finally, the FGF players’ portal is smaller than the JGT but some Facebook users and some other people use it frequently, I’m fine :smiley:

#52

You simply have to STOP USING this ARGUMENT. Search this forum. Nobody said it HERE. Somebody might have said it, maybe, but NOT HERE.

Quit it. Stop derailing this thread.

#53

I semi-disagree. I think that JGO should implement a review swap-like place, but since you don’t agree I’ll just make a topic for it and we’ll see what happens. However the only thing I want in a gaming community like this is feedback for feedback, and I think that since I’m trying to promote java just like everyone else that they should want to help, and if they don’t than there’s something wrong. I want to help other people and games grow here, but I’m forced to spend all my time here hyping my game up so people will actually notice it.

If I understand you correctly you’re saying that if a vet makes a pong clone, and a newbie makes a MegaMan X clone that people should notice the vet’s game, and only give him feedback because the newbie hasn’t been around that long, and I strongly disagree with that. We should let our games do the talking, not our post count.

#54

If the guys implemented a rating system, personal blogs, and any other ego stroking bs. Its not really gonna help people program, just make a clutter f*** of a site(Just like the D.I.C website). this is decent, it works.

Its true that anything can be improved.

A few reasonable issues that all programers will run into, like a comment earlier about not enough graphic designers and such, as those that are core to game development issues, then maybe a future sister site, or something of the like for artists.

but seriously the site is great. Even CyanPrime who started the thread is now getting into what he wanted in the beginning, so really whats the problem? (thats rhetorical).

#55

It has been erased from the forum, it does not mean that it has not been written. I don’t derail this thread, I have been attacked, I defend myself. I don’t think Javagaming sucks, I only disagree with a very few words that has been used in the past, I know it happens very very very rarely. If I search some famous insults in the forum, I assume I will find almost nothing.

Watch this:
http://www.java-gaming.org/index.php/topic,18667.msg146733.html#msg146733

[quote]I simply find 2D a more expressive rendering approach than generic souless 3D models.
[/quote]
I told you that someone used this word about my game, I was right!!

#56

Ofcourse Chris didn’t mean it like that. It’s just that you just joined this community, and now your have this thread “why java-gaming.org sucks”. Maybe it’s you that have a bit of a skewed view of how things should be going on a forum where everybody spends their tiny bits of free time to share their knowledge.

JGO is only of the most welcoming communities. You’d be hard pressed to find a place that would be giving your the feedback on your game that you think it deserves. I completely understand that when you’ve put a lot of effort into something, and put it out in the open, you are dying for feedback, and hoping that everbody is thrilled by what you just achieved. Reality’s a bitch though. It’s just not how people ‘work’. You have to sugercoat things to attract people. Just saying that you are working on a project and released revision #3 just doesn’t cut it. We’re all human, and we have to have our buttons pushed right.

Regarding the members with ‘rep’, well, yes, they get more feedback. That’s just one of those social effects kicking in. If you see an ad of McDonalds of a new burger, you’ll probably want to try it, while when the local snackbar would’ve placed that ad, you’d probably flip the page. It is unfair, sure, but you’ll have to live with it, we all do. That’s just how it works. Expect anything else and you’ll be disappointed. It’s just hard to get people to do stuff you want, in every community, until you get that reputation, and things get easier. Blame evolution.

#57

Why? Because someone disagrees with what you feel is useful for the community? You know, I can watch as many videos on YouTube as I want and never have to review/rate any of them. Same thing here. Just because you have asked for feedback does not mean that anyone is required to oblige. Period.

[quote]I want to help other people and games grow here, but I’m forced to spend all my time here hyping my game up so people will actually notice it.
[/quote]
Again, if people care about it, they will post! If they don’t, no amount of PR is going to save you. Talk to any number of game companies that built “The Next Great Thing™” that no one purchased (poor Beyond Good and Evil. Damn, I loved that game!). Forcing people to participate is not a community. Sorry, it’s not.

[quote]If I understand you correctly you’re saying that if a vet makes a pong clone, and a newbie makes a MegaMan X clone that people should notice the vet’s game, and only give him feedback because the newbie hasn’t been around that long, and I strongly disagree with that. We should let our games do the talking, not our post count.
[/quote]
You did not understand me correctly. People that have been here for a while, who have demonstrated over and over their skillset/games naturally receive more attention than people who just joined the community, regardless of how skilled they may be. Much of the reaction of the community is built around the attitude of the developer. Agreed that your games should do the talking. And, at the moment, not many people feel the need to give you feedback on your game. Perhaps THAT is telling you something?

#58

Not to belabor this, but, yes you did. Run on all major desktop platforms or not be accepted as a “complete” game until this requirement was met. People disagreed with this, you would not bend, and so they left and started a new site.

Having said that, we are glad that you are a member here gouesse :slight_smile:

#59

AND, if feedback is what you want, here it goes.

There is a reason that VirtuaOn 4K was one of the lowest ranked games in the 4K competition. It was just not a good game. At all. Again, perhaps the silence is telling you something.

Your other game, Blue Fiend, has a good art style and I like it a lot, but the gameplay has a long way to go. It would often stutter and the control was impossible.

#60

Oh, this wasn’t about VO4k at all. I know it wasn’t a good game. though it had some cool things. After all, Blue Fiend is made using VO4k’s engine.

Anyway, have you tried it again since back than? I’ve redone the controls like 3 times. As for the stuttering, and the CPU rape. I’m working on that as best I can, but making no progress :frowning: