Sun's big netbeans strategy and why it will fail

[swpalmer]

[quote=“princec,post:38,topic:27380”]
From a Mac user’s point of view this was my view prior to Java 5.

From a Windows user’s point of view, Swing’s speed never bothered me since Java 1.3, though I recognised that SWT was a bit faster on Java 1.4. Back then it was (what I assume were) GC pauses in NetBeans while I was editing that made me switch to Eclipse… then I found the Eclipse auto-complete and refactoring and rarely looked back.

NetBeans 4 and 5 have made significant progress though… and I’m starting to like Matisse more and more. I have never been a fan of the GUI builders since I find they tie my hands too much, but I’m starting to learn how to use them better so I don’t get into that situation as much. So recently I’ve been running both NetBeans and Eclipse. Eclipse for general coding, NetBeans for creating the Ant projects and any non-trivial UI.

[pepe]

@Funkapotamus

The way Sun promotes Netbeans seems like they’re desperate for users. It’s better now, but a little while ago you had to be on your toes when downloading the JDK or you’d accidentally end up getting Netbeans along with it. I’d like to shoot whoever decided to bury the link to vanilla JDK downloads in favor of the JDK/IDE bundle. I think I remember reading an article where Sun said Netbeans had more users than Eclipse simply because more people were downloading it (curiously, this was after the “dreaded bundle”). Every now and then I’m guilty of accidentally downloading Netbeans when It’s bundled with something else. Apparantly this makes me a Netbeans developer?! ???

That was more than two years ago. Netbeans now uses much more accurate ways to know how many people actually USE the IDE. Sure, the direction they choose to count can drastically reduce the count as some users will never be counted, but i think that’s pretty honest from them.

Quote taken from a recent javalobby thread: http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/m91997965.html#91997965

[quote]The NetBean stats are not tracking downloads or website hits - since it ties into the update center (normally connected to on start-up) and includes a unique ID, it allows for meaningful statistics to be gathered on the whole population. Of course, if someone can’t connect to the update center (firewall or similar) or turns off the automatic aspect and doesn’t connect manually then they are not counted. For the statistics given, it takes 2 hits from the same user (install-id) per month to give a single “hit” - in other words, approximately 200,000 users ran NetBeans twice in Feb 2006 and connected to the update center.
[/quote]
Roumen’s blog is even more detailed and shows a simple graphic about user base growth: http://blogs.sun.com/roller/page/roumen?entry=netbeans_growth_questioned
If the numbers are real, i think that if sun/netbeans is desperate for users, at least they succeed. But i don’t think they are desperate as they have users, and a good amount.

[kaffiene]

@Funkapotamus

Not to judge those online, but I have yet to meet a Netbeans user in real life who I’d trust a project to. ;D I’ve also yet to come accross a local business which uses Netbeans over Eclipse, Powerbuilder, or IntelliJ.

As a Netbeans user and a professional Java developer for just under a decade, I have to disagree.

[cylab]

[quote]As a Netbeans user and a professional Java developer for just under a decade, I have to disagree.
[/quote]
Me too.

Although I use Idea at work, I use NetBeans for everything else. Even at work we use it, when it comes to GUI building. Judging from the frequency at the NetBeans mailing lists, there are a lot others using it. At last it all boils down to what serves you most.

[mabraham]

Quick question: does NB do hippie completion? To me this was one (of many) highlights in Eclipse 3.1, and I miss it sooo much in Visual Studio and Word and everywhere else…

On a side note, I like the way the Eclipse auto completion has been improved in 3.2 for editing JavaDocs.

And: Callisto is coming in : 1 days 21h:52m:51s