State of Java Gaming?

General Discussions
#21

The 3D Flash stuff is software rendered. The new update N stuff for Java should see some actual competition against Flash, but only if developers can provide noticeably cooler applets. I can fairly easily turn Titan Attacks and Ultratron and Treasure Tomb into actual web page applets - might be fun.

As for “real 3D” games - same setup code applies. We’ve tried to hide most of the nonsense in LWJGL but it’d be nicer to have it simpler still with a lightweight framework. Slick springs to mind :wink:

Cas :slight_smile:

#22

The differences between 2d and 3d are pretty minimal. I’m already using framebuffer objects, shaders and vertex buffer objects, that gives you all the building blocks you need to do something like my 2d games or Unreal 3.

(Actually thats a slight lie, I took out VBOs since they didn’t give me any performance increase, but the point still stands).

#23

Yup, the only difference is using a Z coordinate in your matrices really…

Cas :slight_smile:

#24

It’s good to see a D3D implementation coming along. Are the rumors true, that OpenGL apps shut down Vista’s desktop compositing?

How do people feel about using Java Web Start vs. a Windows executable? It might be good to see a dead-simple way to create Windows executables, like what Puppygames does. I know Kevin Glass came up with a solution that doesn’t require Excelsior JET, but it requires a hacked older version of LWJGL. Are there any new developments in this area?

#25

I duno brackeen… but if they find a non-JET way to natively distribute java, will it be featured in your next book? :wink:

this comment has nothing to do with the subject at hand, I just wanted to let you know your current book great and its probably the only way I could’ve learned how to build a 3D engine from scratch :slight_smile:

#26

afaik, it just required him to manually remove all references to Java2D/Swing etc.
We are dependent on it for mac and linux.
So I am pretty sure it should be possible to use the latest version of lwjgl - maybe even have a patch file to remove said features.
However I know that there was some work to get it running nicely with the gcj implementation, most notably object creation had to be reduced drastically, nay removed! in his game.

#27

Thats right. LWJGL hacking was only on the JAR, no changes to code as such. However, I’d consider GCJ out of the question still for real time games, the GC is just too poor.

This is all insignificant now anyway, Java 6 Update N brings us the Java Kernel. I can’t see why anyone would do anything but distribute their game with a custom build (with the jkernel tool) JRE. I did some initial tests with automatically cutting out the bits of the 1.6 VM I don’t need using the verbose class logging. For my current project my VM (LWJGL with no AWT dependency) my game JRE came in at 3.5 meg, about the same as the runtime libraries for GCJ.

Windows EXE is going to be way easier with the new update, and we’ll be able to guarantee that the user has 1.6 with all the fantastic benefits that brings. To say nothing has changed since 2003 is ridiculous, especially given Update N that is just round the corner.

Kev

#28

I read sometime ago there was a frontend for http://llvm.org/ in development:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/harmony-dev/200505.mbox/<20050519022253.0805820219A@nxmail.numerix.com>

That might overcome the current deficincies with gcj for compiling to EXE…

#29

anyone had a look at openjdk, if its possible to legally use a stripped jvm from it now?

#30

Well, nothing has changed since 2003… yet. When Update N is out, that’s going to be a significant change to the deployability of Java games. Massively significant. But it’s not out there yet.

Cas :slight_smile:

#31

early access doesn’t have much at the moment over the normal jre for java gaming (apart from maybe d3d for j2d) , the real changes for gaming will come when the java kernel and java plugin go in.

#32

Microsoft threatened to do this, but OpenGL doesn’t disable the compositor in Vista.

That said, my experience with vista is that graphics drivers are still somewhat immature, but I don’t think that’s limited to OpenGL.

  • elias
#33

Vista is still generally rubbish, but then, that’s what you get for being on the bleeding edge. It’ll be fine next year.

I’ve tried the early access Java 6 but of course the kernel stuff isn’t in there yet. However the super-fast applet / JRE startup is, and that’s good stuff. It’s a bit buggy at the moment though (notably, it pauses my entire machine - mouse included - periodically, which is a trivial internal VM thread priority bug that they keep fixing in patches then unfixing. Grrr)

Cas :slight_smile:

#34

From my perspective, i am of the opinion that little has change since i used to be an avid game programmer.

Ive been away web programming for several years, and since ive come back to these forums, all i really see that is new is more 3d engine projects.

Why doesnt everyone join one 3d engine project and perfect it rather than trying to reinvent the wheel all the time?

#35
  • personal taste
  • industry involvement (some like it, some don’t)
  • desire to leave a mark
  • communication problems
  • developer animosity
  • etc. etc. etc.

It’s like asking “why doesn’t everyone…” without actually participating in the desired effort :stuck_out_tongue: :wink:

#36

Besides, there are only 3 engines. Monkey, Xith, and java3d.

Cas :slight_smile:

#37

http://aviatrix3d.j3d.org/
http://www.jpct.net/
http://www.agency9.se/products/agentfx/

Kev

#38

(I meant that had communities on this board)

Cas :slight_smile:

#39

worldscape http://www.matthiasmann.de/ is also one impressive java engine.

and https://jge.dev.java.net/

and the infamous yet to be released http://volatile-engine.blogspot.com/ (although main site seems to be down)

also my current favorite http://slick.cokeandcode.com/ (although technically a library, could easily be an engine)

#40

http://dzzd.net will be the real surprise :wink:
http://dzzd.net/demo/DEMOLG/