I agree with you, there is no white hat. I hope that Oracle will use this deal to push J2SE/JavaFX 2 on Android 
Unlikely to happen, if Oracle win they’re likely to get a massive amount of money from Google and Google will probably start moving away from Java. If Google win there will likely still remain bad blood between the two companies but might force Oracle to be more open with Java in future as there is a risk they will loose control.
Only way out of this situation that would be good for everyone is if the two companies settle out of court but from the impressive I’ve gotten of Oracle so far they are unlikely to care about any benefit to the Java community and would probably just want the money.
Also from the looks of it the patents in question are pretty recent (as new as 2008) so Java (GPL) won’t be truly free until 2028 or until the US abolish software patents.
[quote]Unlikely to happen, if Oracle win they’re likely to get a massive amount of money from Google and Google will probably start moving away from Java.
[/quote]
Could be true, but that would make Android (and Google) look very bad indeed.
“Sorry all developers, we stole java so you have to switch languages now”. Couldn’t Google just be smarter and avoid this nonsense alltogether?
If they did go to court and lost they wouldn’t be able to continue using Java even if they pay the fees correct? or they could get sued again? (I have have hardly any knowledge in US patent law).
Which if Google wants to continue with Java then they would need to settle outside of the court.
[quote]“Sorry all developers, we stole java so you have to switch languages now”
[/quote]
Well they could in a much nicer way. Like invent something so similar(like what MS did with C#) that anything can be ported over. Which could be in done Android 3.
This is probably more likely then them having J2SE in Android 3. But who knows, maybe there could be a compromise and have a hybrid Android/J2SE library.
Its unlikely that .Net is fully free from Java patents, MS probably licence them or have a stockpile of their own as a defence. Also the recent ramblings about Java not being free by the Mono developers are rather silly as they are probably just as easy targets for Oracle as Android.
Which should have been in Android 1 in the first place since they decided against ‘real’ java.
In the end it’s all backpaddling.
[quote]Its unlikely that .Net is fully free from Java patents, MS probably licence them or have a stockpile of their own as a defence.
[/quote]
Funny if Oracle goes after .Net next.
[quote]Which should have been in Android 1 in the first place since they decided against ‘real’ java.
[/quote]
Indeed.
On the other hand, if Oracle would have continued Sun’s direction to get with the times and open up java, some of this mess would not have been necessary?
Nevertheless, my gut feeling says that Google is playing a bit of an unfair game here, perhaps relying a bit too much on their ‘coolness’ image.
I’m a bit divided in this… :persecutioncomplex:
You don’t pay $6 billion and then release the crown jewels for free
Oracle are likely to try squeeze at least that much out of its purchase if not more.
IMHO it is a no win situation if the continue down this path:
Oracle will most likely win, proving their ‘evilness’ and people will shy away from Java, leaving Oracle with an empty victory that will cost them more then they stood to gain.
If Oracle does not win, it will be all-bets-off concerning patents.
For Oracle it was a do or die situation. If the do not sue the infringers, it is bad and freeing it would have been a financial loss.
I saw a who-is-suing-who-in-the-mobile-world, it really was basically everyone suing each other.
For Google any outcome, even if it costs them, can be a morality victory. Since Java is not fully free and Oracle did a 180°, they ‘did the right thing, even if it was not lawful’.
And seriously, we know Oracle and they were never ‘the good guys’. If they do something, it will be for money and for money only.
One of the perks for buying Sun was the possibility to sue the infringers.
IMHO the ONLY way for this to end in a positive way is for Java to become fully free.
Then both can claim victory and live happily ever after.
Personally I think.
If oracle wins: It will give Java a new wave of credibility (in a corporate sense), just like how people respect Mac, even though its just plain evil.
I would love it if google reached a settlement that android would allow for a java virtual machine. Not j2me specifically, just rights to a vitual machine, as I cant help but wonder how long j2me will last as smart phones continue to become small computers.
Analysis by groklaw:
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20101005114201136
Personally I would like to google win and have java available free and clear of any corporate control.
Yeh would be nice but Oracle aren’t gonna let it go so easily and judging by their recent actions they could easily move Java back to being closed source like they did with OpenSolaris.
Google is asking the court to invalidate oracles copyright on Java. If google wins Java will have all open source code and oracle won’t be able to control the code via a it’s copyrights. Java will be free and clear.
yeh but the copyright isn’t how Oracle control Java, the GPL pretty much gives that away. Its the patents that Oracle controls Java with.
Well, the real trick is the patents in question are far from java specific.
Supposedly google did a clean room implementation of Java, rather than using the GPL’d code, so there should not be any valid patent infringement claims. That leaves copyright infringement which is what googles response deals with.
You have it backwards, clean room clears you of copyright issues but does nothing to protect you from patent infringement.
Google believes it has a license to oracles patents because they implemented a clean room version of java which is outlined in the copyright notice that comes with the jls and jvm specs. Oracle is claiming that google violated that copyright, thus google doesn’t have a license, and is now infringing on oracles patents.
The patent licences are granted only if the implementation passes the TCK which Dalvik does not. Google is saying the patents are unrelated or invalid not that it should have a licence to use them.