icky icky. bad.
Not CLDC, CDC at least.
IMHO CLDC/MIDP was a stop gap for VERY limited devices. Even cell phones are quickly losing that distinction.
JK
[quote]There’s still absolutely no value in a JVM for consoles until they’re using some open PC APIs for their video and audio output, say OpenGL and OpenAL (hehe). What’s the point in coding in Java unless it’s going to run elsewhere? The disadvantages in performance are far too significant on consoles to make any perceived development time benefit work out in favour of Java.
And I notice that “exclusivity” is still a factor in console development and I remember that we had a discussion with Jeff a long while ago where I wondered exactly why console manufacturers would want their exclusive titles to simply work on their competitors hardware… didn’t really get a convincing answer either way how this was going to work out…
Cas 
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I’d say that a JVM for consoles would still be a great step in the right direction, even if there’s no openGL/openAL available on them.
Sure, having openGL/openAL available would be the ideal situation but java’s portability and productivity gains are still a great thing.
Say, 10% of the code is openGL code. The other 90% would still have java’s portability benefit. Just the openGL code would need to be rewritten.
If a JVM for a console would become available, an openGL wrapper/driver would be the next big step as the need for them would have become greater.
I mean, why do you use java? You know C++ is portable too (although not as easy), look at the games that are available on PC’s and consoles. They might still have been easier and thus less expensive to port if they were written in java (given a JVM was available everywhere).
Or even Xith3D versions of consoles could even be an option?
I use Java because I’m not particularly clever :-[
Unlike most console programmers.
Cas
[quote]I use Java because I’m not particularly clever :-[
Unlike most console programmers.
Cas
[/quote]
Heh, you’re not particulary convincing now, I’ll give you that. :
Back on the topic of the thread I was in Electronics Boutique over the holiday and I have to say…the presence given to PC titles compared to consoles is, well, sad. The PC titles were relegated to a back corner of the store and shelves were crammed so tightly that you can’t browse them easily. The other 3/4 of the store was dedicated to console games. Shoot, even the “action figure” section was bigger than the PC space.
-ChrisM
[quote]The PC titles were relegated to a back corner of the store and shelves were crammed so tightly that you can’t browse them easily. The other 3/4 of the store was dedicated to console games.
[/quote]
Yeah, but I think this is a passing trend, brought about by shops trying to cram in as many popular titles as possible for the Christmas rush. I believe PCs will reclaim much of their previous space in 2004.
Edit: But I suppose I wouldn’t be too surprised if the shops decide, on the basis of one poor year of releases, to cut right back on selling PC games. And then there’ll not be enough copies to be had of the good games, once they do come out. Maybe 2004 will be a year of harsh lessons why pre-ordering is good for your sanity?
I noticed this happening around here well before the Christmas buying season. It is sad.
It’s not sad, it’s just a little glimpse of the future. Why traipse all the way down to Crap-O-Mart when you can download a game and pay for it over broadband? There’s the future. Hurrah for Us, is all I can say. The Indie space is going to get a bit hectic in the next 2-3 years.
Cas
[quote]It’s not sad, it’s just a little glimpse of the future. Why traipse all the way down to Crap-O-Mart when you can download a game and pay for it over broadband? There’s the future. Hurrah for Us, is all I can say. The Indie space is going to get a bit hectic in the next 2-3 years.
Cas
[/quote]
Truer words have never been said. I noticed this trend developing several years ago while working for Bethesda. As the growth of broadband spread, the number of people downloading 100+ MB demos increased. Now, poeple are downloading 600+MB games (America’s Army anyone) from websites with regularity.
We’d had that debate back when we were discussing the size of the JVM in a download and such a while back. The size of the JVM, while it needs to continue to shrink, is becoming a drop in the bucket compared to the content that its supporting.
You misunderstood… it is not sad in that sense. I agree it is the future… The sad part is that all of the attention is going to the console games that are visible on the store shelves, or with big cardboard cut-out standing in front of the store. They are advertised on TV and before Movies in the theater.
PC gaming is all but ignored, yet currently it is the only platform I’m aware of where the newer internet distribution, try before you buy, etc… is happening.
I would like to see some numbers on the video games purchased via download versus traditional retail… The problem with the future is that it isn’t here yet
No sir, and I’m actually surprised to hear that coming from you. MIDP2.0 gave us floating point and pretty much all of the Java APIs that are necessary for gaming. With the 3D JSRs which give these devices OpenGL capability, there is very little that one REALLY needs CDC for. The only thing CDC does in increase in the order of millions of bones, the cost for someone to deploy a device.