MoleBox

Yeah, I’ve read them through again aswell, I thought that maybe there was a ‘loophole’ of some sort that Cas had discovered in this regard but if there is I can’t seem to find it. It pretty much, to me at least, appears to be on the same equivalent as distributing a ‘cut down’ jre with your app. As i understand it (although I could be mistaken), Jet actually either compiled everything, or had their own reference implementation of the JRE which they used for compiling purposes. It appears quite different from Molebox, which entails distributing the JRE, only in comrpessed/encrypted form.

D.

If it’s compressed, encrypted, and embedded, then it’s hardly redistributed is it? There is no JRE. There is only the game.

Jet compiles an existing JDK. There is no standalone Jet; you have to first install a JDK and let Jet recompile it.

The end result is identical: an exe that runs a game, and nothing else. Who cares about the precise implementation underneath? Hell, I’ve even got Jet. No-one would ever know which one I’ve used.

Anyway, I don’t much care. Either they want people to promote Java or not, but I don’t want to have to do their dirty work of installing the damned thing for them. When they get a deal with Microsoft things will be different… but not before.

Cas :slight_smile:

[quote]If it’s compressed, encrypted, and embedded, then it’s hardly redistributed is it? There is no JRE. There is only the game.
[/quote]
I would think that this is violating the license agreement for sure. You ARE still distributing bits and pieces of the JRE, this is no different than if you had a partial JRE in a ZIP file or if you stripped down rt.jar and called it cas.jar… hiding it in an exe is just that - hiding it.

You might think that Sun wouldn’t have an issue with it because your partial JRE is not usable by others. But your point about tweaking the JRE and selling as your own still applies… you’ve taken technology that Sun developed and tweaked it and sold it as your own. You can’t legally call it Java, and yet you can’t deny that it contains bits of the Java runtime.

It’s a neat idea, but until Sun comes out with a license that allows it, or some other solution I would stay away from MoleBox for Java apps.

I don’t believe it violates the license but if it did… well, I’d quit Java game dev, and advise anyone else in the same position to do the same. I’ve had enough of it getting in the way.

Cas :slight_smile:

Maybe some SUN guys could check this out, so we all know for sure?

Personally I think that Cas’ description of the molebox and his mention of it being compatible to the “spirit” of the JRE license (in the form not to install/spread modified JREs to the user’s PCs) make sense to me. However juridical I’ve no idea.

[quote]I don’t believe it violates the license but if it did… well, I’d quit Java game dev, and advise anyone else in the same position to do the same. I’ve had enough of it getting in the way.

Cas :slight_smile:
[/quote]
I intend to use MoleBox as well, so I hope your right.

[quote]I don’t believe it violates the license but if it did… well, I’d quit Java game dev, and advise anyone else in the same position to do the same. I’ve had enough of it getting in the way.

Cas :slight_smile:
[/quote]
That’s a bit extreme. Maybe you could switch to developing for the Mac only :slight_smile: … the one platform where it isn’t an issue.

That is a possibility but it’s like stepping back 2 years performance-wise :frowning: Just when I was getting used to being able to target GF2-class cards and 1GHz chips, the Mac is still stuck on GF1/600MHz. Damn you infrequent upgraders!!

Cas :slight_smile:

Interesting solution Cas.

Be aware that I Am NOT speaking for Sun corporate or Sun lawyers. I don’t have that authority.

Having said that I think you have pretty good argument that what you have created is an “embedded VM.” It certainly deals with the issue of VM visibility. I havent read through the thread but have you run thsi by Chris to see if he can get actual Sun approval?

Might be an idea.

I was supposed to be coming up with a concrete product suggestion for Chris as well … kindof like a “Puppy Games VM” product which was basically LWJGL + mini VM that we could sell as a product with a royalty to Sun. Nice little earner I expect and hopefully would bypass all that “profile” rubbish by just doing what it says on the tin.

Cas :slight_smile:

This whole topic is very interesting.

I for myself often thought about the great benefit for java game development if you could distribute your game as easily as a single exe file (on windows, the most important platform for games, besides the consoles). The usabilty is just so simple and easy to manage and java could be a real competitor in gamedev on windows machines. 'Cause this is the real bottleneck !!

I wonder why sun doesnt react on that. Do they think executable jars, applets and webstart are sufficient?
Perhaps for just4fun games (4k games, etc.) But since we are able to use real 3D hardware acceleration (LWJGL as an example), and lots of other really professional stuff like networking, sounds, physics, ect… games grow and personally I like the “download it” , “install it”, and “play it” model because I (and most other people) are used to it. Imagine to play Battlefield or other big players via Webstart!

I would like to know if there are any news concerning the legality molebox distrubution of the jvm?