Nearly as fast as Blitz Basic or Flash then?
Or even Java these days?
Cas
Nearly as fast as Blitz Basic or Flash then?
Or even Java these days?
Cas
No idea, I’ve not tried either of those two, and I don’t particularly want to either.
“The CELL processor will rely on a variation of the of the standard OpenGL library, with plans between Sony and the Khronos Group to develop Open GL/ES, an extension specifically designed for interactive content.”
;D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSGL:
PSGL is a 3D computer graphics API based on OpenGL ES for the Sony PlayStation 3. A previous version of PSGL was available for the Sony PlayStation 2 but was largely unused.
There’s no JOGL and no JVM on the PlayStation. End of story.
Cas
Wrong! There is a JVM on PS3 :
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070729074006AAVWXaS
http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/t103801.html
The PS3 comes with Java installed, but it’s an older version. It is possible to install Linux (Yellow Dog Linux) and then Java on a PS3.
http://www.helios.de/support/ps3_install.phtml
It is not the end of story… ;D
That’s not quite what I had in mind.
Cas
It’s true there’s java for linux on PS3, but it doesn’t seem very realistic to target those 5 geeks that went into the trouble of installing YDL and java. Linux also doesn’t have access to the graphics hardware, so hw accellerated OpenGL is not possible.
Linux aside, there’s no java on PS3 apart from BluRay, which is no full-blown J2SE JRE by any means, and afaik not available outside of BluRay discs making it again not realistic for games (seriously, would you download a BluRay disc image of tic-tac-toe, burn it on a BluRay disc to play it on your PS3? :)).
What would have made PS3 interesting for java games if it would at least have J2SE support in the PS3 browser, preferrably with OpenGL support in the form of JOGL or LWJGL. But alas, it doesn’t, and it doesn’t look like that will change.
So as far as I’m concerned, end of story…
The PS3 browser does have flash support, by the way…
Noone uses the OpenGL implementation anyway, since it’s written as an extra layer on top of the native graphics calls and not particularly efficient.
No it’s wrong on my view as it is currently possible to use PSGL under PS3 (it was the case on PS2 too but almost nobody uses this).
You’re right, I missed that.
Still, that’s on ‘native’ PS3, where there’s no java, right? (I’m not counting BluRay java here)
Right, but then I don’t see any technical obstacles to use PSGL through Java as it is a derivative of OpenGL-ES and it is possible to use OpenGL-ES in Java through JOGL-ES.
I’m sure an infinite number of monkeys with an infinite number of Playstations can eventually get a fast, stable JVM running on one with lovely fast OpenGL drivers and start releasing and distributing games for it with Sony’s blessing.
…but there are more useful things for everyone to be doing with their time, like dreaming of never ending kebabs, or flying cars.
Cas
I hate the way you treat people here, especially people who don’t agree with you.
Sorry, I may be a little cynical in my dotage, but it’s good to have a little reality poured on the fires of mindless optimism. Java & OpenGL on PS3 is a waste of everyone’s time - why not put energies into enthusing about promoting it where it’s genuinely strong and meaningful, on the desktop?
I really am sorry, I don’t mean to be mean or nasty, just illustrating the incredibly unlikeliness of it all with a daft comparison.
Cas
I’m dreaming about a flying car made of kebab now.
I recently discovered that some Linux users performed the experiment with PSGL and OpenJDK… without success for the moment but it proves that some people don’t agree with you, some people don’t think that Java OpenGL on PS3 is a waste of everyone’s time. I still use Java ( and JOGL) for my own 3D game and I go on promoting it on the desktop, there is no contradiction.
It doesn’t make me laugh.
This talk has been going on since the first PS2 arrived and it continues to the present. Right now I think we can safely say that it’s not going to happen in a hurry.
Maybe when the game has shifted a couple of million copies on the desktop you could worry about creating a console version but even then I suspect that keeping the logic and the graphical assets and adapting it to run in a PS3-specific engine (or better still licencing someone else to port it) would simply work better and be cheaper than trying to get Java running on a platform where there is no real interest in having it.
If the time spent on worrying about Java/OGL on the console was spent writing good games that use Java and sell a lot of copies then it would be much more likely that someone would see a business case for creating a good java runtime on the platform. Otherwise it won’t happen, or if it does it will happen in the most niche way, which is hardly the point of writing for games consoles.
More specifically, Chris M has been bullshitting us with vauge hand-wavy promisies of Java on consoles since PS2. We’re all a little tired and cynical until we see some physical results we can play with ourselves first hand.
Pleasant! Well, I can only tell you what the companies (sun and others) tell us. Other bits are under hard lined NDAs. As for where all of this started, it was the former President of Sun and the CTO of Sony standing on stage at JavaOne and announcing it, not me. This proclamation was handed to the new “Don’t we have someone focusing on game type things?” guy. Since then, it has not been without its challenges, to say the least. I can assure you that no one has pushed harder than I have to get Java on a game console. Due to NDAs, and yes, that means I can’t tell people outside of the NDAs what is happening, what I have been able to communicate is extremely limited.
There is no intention of bullshitting, as you so nicely put it, and when I have stated in the past that things were moving along, well, they were. But there are a lot of moving parts and nothing is as easy as it seems if you are on the outside looking in, believe me.
Yes, I’ll have to agree with Chris here that ‘bullshitting’ is really overly harsh and totally uncalled for. As far as I can tell, a real effort had been made to get java on the PS2 but sadly it just didn’t work out as we all (and I’m sure Chris included) hoped it would.
I can only speak for myself, but I’ve just become a bit more reserved about the issue because the PS2 story told us that even Sun persueing java on the console doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going to happen or that us indie developers are going to benefit from it. There is more to it than just getting a VM onto it.
On the positive side, I’ve actually seen JEmu2 run on a PS3/YDL, which is more than I expected. Who knows, maybe the PS3/Linux community will grow enough to make it count. I’m not holding my breath, but never say never…
EDIT:
As an even more positive note, the fact that there is actually a JVM running on a PS3 (even though only on Linux) can perhaps serve as an excellent proof of concept for a successful java game (puzzle pirates, runescape on PSN?).
That is a huge step forward compared to the PS2 situation in that there’s now actually something to physically play with.
I’d even go as far as to say that this might even not have happened if Sun/Chris didn’t advocate this proposition, or at least I can imagine it helped.
EDIT2:
[quote]If the time spent on worrying about Java/OGL on the console was spent writing good games that use Java and sell a lot of copies then it would be much more likely that someone would see a business case for creating a good java runtime on the platform.
[/quote]
That’s too easy. What do you suggest, closing the General Discussions/Off-Topic forums?