Java3D 1.4 release

Engines, Libraries and Tools Java 3D
#21

ok,
noticeable speed diffrence can be seen,comparing speed with Java3D and Opengl wrapper(hmm like gl4java or lwjgl).

with c/c++ and java(with gl4java,…) there’s no big diffrence.

when you create same scene(big!!) with java3d and someother gl wrapper,let’s take gl4java
you can see the diffrence.

and java3d doesn’t support all the feature’s opengl could support,once again speeding up release’s will fix this.

my personal opinion is that java3d should drop directx,it only supports M$ platform, well we do have winex but i dont think it’s going to be 100% compatible with windows based directx,atleast not yet.

for taking c# as granted for gaming,ofcourse not, but you have to agree that it does have better starting point than java,don’t you agree?

there’s only one project that has huge potential and that is magicosm(based on java3d?), it’s good gfx,based on java, there’s only one but, how about performance? i haven’t seen demo of it, so i can’t judge.

any other java3d based projects?

i haven’t had time to test lwjgl so i don’t know how it perform’s vs gl4java or java3d,anyone?

althought i’m quite negative for java3d performance it doesn’t mean it can’t be used!

biggest problem i’m facing at the moment how to perform packaging:
-game can be made for small space,depending on game(how large),this is not a problem
-j2se take’s huge space,java3d take’s huge space

only insane modem user’s will download those!!!
don’t know how the phone cost’s is charged in other countries but in here it’s per minute and it’s going to be a lot!!

#22

[quote]for taking c# as granted for gaming,ofcourse not, but you have to agree that it does have better starting point than java,don’t you agree?
[/quote]
Frankly, I don’t know.
A lot more games have been written in Java, that’s for sure (if not 3d).

Java3D, while I think it’s an interesting API, it’s not proven for high performance gaming and I share your doubts against j3d performance because it’s not designed for that specific reason.

[quote]-j2se take’s huge space
[/quote]
J2SE is smaller than DX9. Both are one-time downloads. Maybe Sun should focus on distributing the VM outside the net. Like have one good game created and distribute it together with the VM on all coverdisks they can find for free.
IIRC the .net platform is a lot larger than J2SE (I think it was about 50Mb). No way that’s gonna be dl-ed on my PC through my 56k modem. Especially since I don’t know any good game for it. Or any game for it for that matter…

#23

have to agree on that sun should distribute outside net,java back to linux distro’s(it has been,but not anymore?), and for windows to include java vm(wasn’t there a lawsuit about this?)

the fact is that .net framework will be included in future windows releases and so should java.

for:
Maybe Sun should focus on distributing the VM outside the net. Like have one good game created and distribute it together with the VM on all coverdisks they can find for free.

that’s the best idea i have heard a while,maybe the contest winner(or all the entries) get game published on magazine(contest that they are talking on suggestions forum)

rumor says that if you own xbox you already have .net

#24

[quote]the fact is that .net framework will be included in future windows releases and so should java.
[/quote]
You’re right, but it’s not going to happen if M$ can help it.
There was a lawsuit about that. Sun had actually won that and M$ had to include java in windows within 150 days (IIRC). But M$ went into appeal and now they don’t have to anymore.

#25

althought i wouldn’t use the java vm that M$ includes in future windows if it were to happen.

they would do the same thing like they did for opera for msn site, or was that even true.

#26

My personal opinion is that Java/OpenGL should be Sun suported. I mean look at the technologies… I mean OpenGL is available on even more platforms thant Java and hardware acceleration is required for media rendering. I mean the JRE connects to the computer at some point so why not have OpenGL as the connection between the GPU and Java where JRE is the connection between rest of the environment and Java.

This would make million things so much easier, but no since OpenGL would break java as a language so much. As close as I can get to this is LWGL and its future, which looks very interesting, especially since it has quite powerful community(and princec(cas) who is god among men).

#27

[quote]althought i wouldn’t use the java vm that M$ includes in future windows if it were to happen.
[/quote]
The court fight was/is about including the latest Sun JRE in the windows distribution. The old M$ JVM causes more harm than good.

[quote]My personal opinion is that Java/OpenGL should be Sun suported
[/quote]
Yes, I agree. It’s the practical thing to do and makes sense. Going for java3d instead of explicitly supporting openGL in java was not a good idea I think.

#28

It’s funny that we need a benchmark isn’t it? I mean, I don’t even really have a bench, never mind a way for any computer language to mark it.

I know it’s not relevant, but that just suddenly seemed a really weird word so I thought I’d share.

#29

Talking about benchmarks (which is a funny word ;)), did you know that the EULA of .NET says that you may not publish any benchmarks without M$'s written permission?

That may explain a few things, like the total lack of unbiased benchmarks. :-/

#30

true, and there are other examples of bad benchmarking,
for example newest futuremark is BAD.

#31

Personally I think it is good that Java3D has its own renderer interface that can be implemented using whatever API the underlying platform supports. It helps portability and us developers who target consumer-level graphics cards should probably not feel too confident about forever having OpenGL support for all those cards.

The DirectX implementation of Java3D has saved my neck a few times when I have had to present applications on laptops with bad OpenGL support and on corporate computers with old drivers where driver updates have been restricted. I just wish we had closer access to the renderer interface (and all other internals of Java3D), but it seems that is where Java3D 1.4 is heading.

#32

I believe Java3D will gain an important popularity boost when the MMORPG Magicosm is finally released.

http://www.cosm-game.com

Should do wonders for the image of Java gaming. ;D

#33

Please, do not go into C# versus java versus C++ or opengl versus directx fights - this topic is about Java3D 1.4, not how games should be done in general.

JSR specifies most of things which are problematic now - stencil buffer, shader programs, rendering interface. Question is, when we will see any part of it - I’m talking about specification. I think that there are some smart heads here which could give a lot of good input about the API - but JCP process does not seem to work this way. Expert group is supposed to propose complete solution, public review seems to be only for catching small bugs there and back, maybe refactoring one or two methods at one place.

Any chance for status update from Sun people ? Is expert group working on the subject at all ?