Java Games Community Board Elections

My main question is does Yuri or David actually accept the nomination? I see no emails from them nor posts that they actually want to be on the board. If they have accepted the nomination then at least some info on what they plan to do would be nice in this thread: http://www.java-gaming.org/cgi-bin/JGNetForums/YaBB.cgi?board=announcements;action=display;num=1074215610;start=15

It’s a shame blahblahblahh isn’t on the list - if I was a betting man I’d say that perhaps his email got caught by the moderation system (that happened to me once when I used a different email address and it turned up a few days later)?

Now if it turns out that neither Yuri nor David actually want the commitment then surely we’ll have to accept blahblahblahh’s nomination or else the election is just a walkover (2 candidates and 2 posistions…).

Will.

cough anyone care to comment?

Will.

Yuri accepts the nomination. He’s just very busy currently.

Hello,

Yes, I confirm I accept nomination. Unfortunately, I missed most of this discussion (including my nomination) because of participation in ATEI (Amusement Trades Exhibition International) exhibition in London, so I’ll provide missing information about myself ASAP.

Anyway, I think that this is a good idea to have Java Games Community Board.

Yuri

cool :slight_smile:

How about David - has he accpeted the nomination?

Will.

Well, seeing as none of the candidates’ platforms so far seem to cover all the things I want out of a board, and there’s been practically no discussion on them, I’ll have a go; hopefully this might stimulate something more from them. (PS: note to Athomas, it’s standard practice to only allow people to stand for an election if they get a platform/speech handed in on time by the end of the selection process. Yuri, for instance, has only given people 3 days to process his info! And where’s David’s campaign speech/platform?).


The J* API’s are not my area of expertise, and I believe either Gregory or Shawn would do a much better job with them; one of them is bound to be voted in for this, and I’d usually just support their recommendations.

My major interest in this board is driving the JGO community forward on the following fronts:

[] Community participation
[
] Sun-supported marketing
[] Game-driven changes to java, the JDK, the JRE, etc
[
] Helping the GTG to understand the JGO community, and avoid some of the unfortunate accidents/misunderstandings in the past
[*] Making sure things actually get done, as opposed to only being talked about.

I want to see regular (once weekly) new articles published on JGO, from the community, on the topics we discuss here. It’s important to understand that these do NOT replace the forums - articles take longer to write, require much more effort, are better thought out, and a single article tends to summarise most of what you want to know. I would typically expect something to be debated in the forums, making us realize an article on that subject would be helpful, then the article would come some time later - taking into account all the debate on the forum, but summarising things more concisely.

Think of articles from flipcode, and to a lesser extent game-dev.net and CFXweb. But our articles would be aimed at us as an audience, mainly covering three topics:

[] Tutorials for doing things in java in particular (e.g. regularly updated tutorials on JOGL, Java2D, sound API’s, etc). Usually aimed at newbie java games programmers, who NEED decent tutorials.
[
] Marketing, publishing, selling games - specifically looking at the problems java game developers face here, and including post-mortems from our community of the problems they’ve faced and any successes / tricks they’ve learned.
[*] “Java Games Development tricks” and / or Advanced articles. These tend to be less factual and more personal opinions and tricks, due to the fact that it’s less well-trodden ground - e.g. some of Cas’s opinions on avoiding threads, or e.g. some of my opinions on use of NIO.

These would all be peer-reviewed, just to sanity check them for obvious inaccuracies / problems. You could trust JGO articles never to be glaringly wrong, at least :).

I believe I can find the people within the community both to write and review these articles, and am willing to do a lot of it myself until I’ve got others involved.

I also think there’s a lot more promotion of JGO that Sun could do with very little effort, but they need some advice / help here. I see front-page news articles covering Sun and the games industry that completely omit JGO and the GTG. A little co-ordination with the GTG could get much greater exposure.

From my experience of organizing exhibitions, competitions, etc, I’d also have a particular personal interest in getting the oft-suggested “Sun JGO games competition” made into a reality. Also, I think I can see ways of increasing sun’s presence at industry exhibitions (and taking along demo / beta games from this community with them) which don’t need Sun to spend lots of money, but would take too much time for the GTG to organize themself - I want to do the groundwork etc, so all they have to do is make the final decision. This also applies especially to non-US events, where I think the GTG is even less likely to get involved just because they don’t have anyone outside the US (I’m based in the UK).

On the subject of GTG’s understanding of this community, I think many of us know of some of the major accidents. E.g. the change to games.dev.java.net which killed these forums in the blink of an eye! (until they realised how much we wanted them back -urgently-). Also this election could have been organized much better, with just a tiny bit of feedback from the community before it started. I’ve worked on this problem lots of times before (helping committees to understand their societies’ members, and improve communication between the two).

Finally, I really don’t think most people have what it takes to ensure the things they want the GTG to do actually get done. It’s always had to get corporates to move on anything - even when you have a dept head (e.g. ChrisM) on your side. It’s even harder when you’re not even a salaried employee. The guys at Sun might not like the sound of this ;D but if we agreed to do something I’d sure as heck made sure it actually got done (and if we were progressing too slowly on something or delaying it unreasonably, I’d start making a fuss until we either agreed not to do it, or actually got it done).

I have a lot of experience in:

[] Organizing committees, getting things done, heckling people until they do what they promised (skills honed from working both with corporates who are slow to do anything new, and with volunteer organizations, where no-one is being paid to do anything)
[
] Promotional activities for communities - e.g. I’ve arranged and run events for upwards of 2000 people, co-run a £50k business plan competition, arranged 5-figure sponsorship deals etc
[] Shared virtual worlds, game-networking, MMOG tech development, etc (c.f. my company @ grexengine.com)
[
] Advising startups and fledgling games developers; e.g. helping people writing their first game to organize themselves and give their best shot at getting it out the door. Helping them understand the steps they must take to get to market, and how hard it’s going to be.

If you’re interested, I have a very short bio here: http://grexengine.com/sections/people/adam/ (or click on moderator info at the top of this page - I’m Adam Martin / blahblahblahh)

…But I think it’s more important what I’d actually do on the board rather than what I’ve already done.

P.S. Just to be clear: I’m not putting down the current candidates, but there are two positions, and those candidates I think would be especially good for one wouldn’t on their own be covering everything I think needs covering.

I think that the platforms we’ve seen already from the candidates are going to leave a gaping hole, and this is a lost opportunity to get some really good stuff going (although I’m sure whoever gets voted in will certainly get really good stuff going as well - it’s just we could have got more).

P.P.S. Yes, I do think it’s stupid that I was cut out of the elections :). And I have already tried to get some of what I mentioned above going - but I seem never to be able to get hold of the GTG people long enough to get much stuff to happen. They’re very busy people.

Sorry, I forgot something.

Something else I’d really like to make happen is get more talks at conferences on the use of java in professional games development. With Sun’s backing, talks that wouldn’t get past the conference selection criteria are much more likely to be accepted (assuming Sun had real involvement in the talks - people are much more interested when Sun starts to make moves in this area).

In the last 12 months I’ve been to mobile gaming conferences (approx 75 talks/presentations, and 5k attendees), games-development conferences and exhibitions (both UK and US, typically 0-120 talks/presentations/roundtables, and 10k - 20k attendees), and would have gone (but for other commitments) to several more “games industry” seminars / 1-day conferences where Java was discussed quite heavily - but Sun was nowhere in evidence (and I doubt the GTG even heard these things were going on!).

Like it or not, these are the primary means of getting the attention of the games industry. You may think that as someone who’s already using JGO you don’t care - but you do. The more developers (especially professional) who come in to this community, the more money that corporate Sun can give to the GTG, and the more big publishers / studios will take Java seriously. The knock on effects include publishers being more likely to accept a proposal from you for a java game, and developers being likely to see the value of your extensive java experience when they’re hiring. I’ve spoken to publishers and developers on these issues, and often the directors are not so adverse to java as the companies appear - but they admit privately that they daren’t be more interested in java until there’s more momentum behind java in the games industry - more exposure, more support from Sun, more examples of successful games projects, more information on how java helps - so many C++ developers still don’t even realise that java has regular expressions, sometimes don’t even believe it!

Combatting this ignorance is not so hard, when you start using industry events. As lone developers, working outside of the JGO community and the auspices of the GTG, it’s practically impossible.

So, its looks like its Shawn with a close second “Abstain”. Don’t we now have to ask why so many people (proportionally) abstained and why although the forums officially have nearly 3000 users, <150 decided to actually vote.

Not to say that these folks shouldn’t start the job asap, but this whole election process strikes me as slightly dodgy…

Kev

[quote]So, its looks like its Shawn with a close second “Abstain”.

Not to say that these folks shouldn’t start the job asap
[/quote]
I would just like to thank everyone for their support at this point, and would also like to especially thank Kevglass for showing his support for me at this difficult time. I think most people would have balked at accepting the facts here (I won, even if you didn’t realise I was a person), but Keglass didn’t, and is a diamond geezer.

I think I did particularly well, especially considering I didn’t even make a speech, and no-one knows who I am…

;D ;D ;D

Quality ;D

Kev

You’re Blabla :slight_smile: and I’m still wondering why I couldn’t vote for you in the poll… :wink:

My assumption too, no one else would use the term “diamond geezer”. (possibly Cas? :))

Kev

;D Busted.

Although I would never normally use that epithet (I once had an annoying flatmate who used it all the time…).

[quote][…]Don’t we now have to ask why so many people (proportionally) abstained and why although the forums officially have nearly 3000 users, <150 decided to actually vote.
[…]
[/quote]
Well, because it’s perfectly normal :slight_smile:

The amount of really (highly) active users is much smaller, than the number of registered users. Take a look at this graph:

I generated it about 9 months ago. It’s from planetquake.de’s forum (17.5k users at that time - 18.5k users now). The Ranks after 3000 were ignored because they have all 0-4 posts. The curve is the same for any other board… sometimes it’s less extreme… sometimes it’s more extreme…

However, the shape is always the same. It’s kinda surprising to see it that clearly with your own eys, but it just has to be that way if you think about it.

We are just a minority of a minority… heh. Actually the community is quite large (relativly) and it will grow even further in the future. Also the most annoying thing for writing games in Java - the lack of a usefull timer - will be gone soon. Horray for 1.5! ;D

Oh I forgot the lurkers. Just reading other’s posts might be enough for alot of people. You can gather alot of knowledge this way. Yep, this board is really a good thing.

Agreed, but then that emphasises that fact the large proportion of this small group actually chose to abstain (and in honesty, I didn’t vote :-X)

Kev

[quote]Agreed, but then that emphasises that fact the large proportion of this small group actually chose to abstain (and in honesty, I didn’t vote :-X)
[/quote]
Heh yea right. I guess most people, who choosed to abstain were either not sure what all that stuff is about, didn’t know enough about the candidates or would have preferred to vote for someone else, who wasn’t listed :>

I am - for example - still not sure what’s the meaning and/or benefits of having a director (despite the fact that I read all related threads) and I didn’t know em all equally well… so most likely I would have choosen to abstain if it had been possible.

I’d like to personally congratulate Shawn & Greg, and thank everyone who participated in the election, including the candidates, voters and community members who raised issues or expressed concern over the role of the board and how the elections were conducted.

While there were certainly a significant number of abstentions, which may be chalked up to any number of issues including lack of understanding of the board’s roles and responsibilities, dissatisfaction with the election process, lack of familiarity with the candidates, or merely apathy. Greater than a super-majority of voters did choose to cast their votes for someone so, as my last act of executive fiat before turning community governance over to the board, I will be letting the elections stand.

A number of extremely valid issues were raised during the elections which I’m sure the newly elected board will work hard to address before next year’s elections. Certainly anyone who disapproves of my handling of the elections (or any other community policy currently in place) will be relieved to know that the community does have majority representation now in setting community policy going forward. (No, the Sun representative does not get an “extra vote”) :slight_smile:

While I’m sure there are still many questions about the role and responsibilities of the board and what effect all this will have on the community, I feel the community will be much better served now that it has somewhere to turn other than Sun and the GTG to ensure its interests are being taken care of. I’ve had the pleasure of spending some time with Shawn and working (remotely) with Greg, and I have the utmost confidence in their dedication to this community and their determination to see it grow and flourish. Once again, I extend my congratulations to the board and look forward to assisting them in shepharding the community forward.

Which is another way of saying feel free to start bugging them with your problems… :slight_smile:

But we need to know who the sun person is and how to contact that person directly so that we can bug that person with community problems and have them resolved.

[quote]I’d like to personally congratulate Shawn & Greg
[/quote]
Is this meant to be the official announcement?

Frankly, Athomas, this is complete and utter crud. Something has gone very badly wrong (ahem. I seem to remember personally making various posts, asking lots of questions, and getting completely blown off by you on most of them) when “abstain” not only is 25% of the vote but actually “wins” one of the positions.

Read: “we’re too cowardly or proud to admit it: the fact that an extraordinarily high number of people abstained can conveniently be ignored because otherwise we’d have to admit we did something wrong”.

It’s simple, really. If you have the balls to turn around and say you are COMPLETELY IGNORING all the people who abstained, why didn’t you have the balls to refuse to add the option? Why didn’t you just say “we won’t pay any attention to any idiot who abstains, so don’t bother. I won’t add the option”.

Oh, and how do you interpret an abstention as “merely apathy” ? In most democratic processes this is interpreted as a statement of dissatisfaction - a refusal to vote for any candidate, but precisely the opposite of apathy: demonstrating that you made a conscious decision not to vote, for whatever reason.

Thanks for ignoring them; most were about the election itself.

Howabout, for starters, “I didn’t vote for either of you”.

You seem to be attempting to dump your screw-ups on Shawn and Greg, which IMHO is totally unfair. Frankly, I have pretty much lost all interest in devoting any of my time to working with the GTG after this fiasco. For the benefit of anyone reading this forum, I also contacted Chris and others privately almost two weeks ago, suggesting that things were going wrong, and received this promise:

“Thanks for taking the time to write to us. I will discuss these points with the team today and will reply back to you asap. I do not have all of the facts as I have not been directly involved with the implementation of the voting, so please bear with me as we sort this out.”

…that was 12 days ago, and no-one ever got back to me, let alone “asap”. So my apologies if I appear to be ranting - I have taken all reasonable steps first before coming to this point.

So, I have one last question for the GTG: Why should anyone bother spending any more time trying to do things with or for you if this is the way you like to do things (taking your attitude to the elections as a whole)? This isn’t rhetorical, it’s serious, and I would appreciate a serious answer.

[quote]But we need to know who the sun person is and how to contact that person directly so that we can bug that person with community problems and have them resolved.
[/quote]
Yes, would be really great to know this, as well as which practical steps the Board will take in the nearest future.

Yuri