Immersion

General Discussions
#21

I never “switched my meaning” of graphics – my point has always been the same since the first rely in this thread:

[quote]I agree with kappa - hiccups and windowed mode break immersion.

…

A game doesn’t need fancy graphics to be immersive, but if the graphics or art style doesn’t stand up to the player’s expectations, then the immersion is broken and the effect is lost.

For example: Among the Dead. Creepy as hell, looks totally immersive. Now say the same game was made in the 90s on the N64, albeit with poorer resolution, lighting, animations, sounds etc. It would have been just as scary in the 90s, but if today’s audience were to play it, it would feel “flat” because it doesn’t meet their audio/visual expectations.

The same has happened in film. Visual effects have advanced, and so too has the audience’s expectation. I recently tried watching The Mummy, which was great and terrifying upon its release, but now the VFX look cheesy and laughable.
[/quote]
Heavy texture compression, poor depth (like in Duke Nukem 3D; not a bug, but a rendering trick), aliasing (e.g. in geometry or shadows), and 30 FPS are not bugs or glitches, and they were all commonplace if you were alive in the 1990s. Today, though, most users have higher graphical expectations than they used to, which is why you can’t get away with these graphical issues without the risk of “losing immersion.”

[quote]I don’t want to bicker or get off topic more than we already have, but the conclusion of the above paragraph is that Java2D is a perfectly fine option for plenty of games.
[/quote]
Let’s just agree to disagree… ::slight_smile:

#22

What I’m saying is that the statement I was originally referring to, the one quoted in the OP, was apparently arguing that “advanced graphics” lead to the “next level” of immersion. That’s the part I disagree with, since plenty of games with simple graphics are more immersive than games with the latest and greatest.

You then started talking about compressed textures and poor framerates, which I think is a different point than saying advanced graphics == immersion.

The source of my confusion is that the statement I was responding to was this:

But you then followed it up with:

…which I think is a bit of a contradiction. All I was saying was that “advanced graphics” are not a prerequisite for immersion, which you apparently agree with, despite the quote in the OP, which is the point of this thread. I guess by “advanced graphics” you just mean graphics that fit well with the game, but as with the Pretentious Ludum Dare game, that can be as simple as squares and lines.

Probably a good idea. I can agree that things like libGDX can be extremely helpful to people who know what they’re doing (I’m currently learning it myself), but Java2D is perfectly fine for many games and is more accessible to newbies, which is why it’s a great option by itself.

#23

Nobody read my reply?

Computer graphics have nothing to do with immersion. Immersion can take place even while playing textual games, by reading a book, listening to someone telling a story over a campfire or listening to a radio theater show (War of the Worlds).

The setting does not matter, it’s just a setting. It’s like we were debating if it mattered for radio theater show immersion whether it was in stereo or mono quality, or 5.1. Sure, more quality is better, and may help, but immersion is based on a wholly different thing though.

Other factors are more important, like is the user allowed to focus on his immersion? Reading a book while there’s a lot of noise around you can disturb you, just as having people around wanting to talk to you, other factors may help, like being wrapped in a warm blanked drinking hot cocoa.

#24

I read your reply, appel, and I agree with you. You don’t need advanced graphics for immersion. The simplest graphics, or even no graphics at all, can be just as immersive as the latest CGI or realistic graphics. It’s completely subjective.

#25

[quote=“appel,post:23,topic:40610”]
This.

Many people find Dwarf Fortress extremely immersive, even though it has arguably got the worst graphics in the history of gaming. Immersion is a complex psychological phenomenon, which defies simple explanations. I think that is precisely why making a really good game is a real challenge, and one that is not a matter of following some simple theory or guideline. It’s so complex that it’s more like art than science.

Graphics definitely play some role in immersion, but it’s way more complicated than more realistic graphics = more immersion. I even read some time that making graphics too realistic can actually break immersion. That’s got to do with suspension of disbelief. It’s easier for most people to “suspend their disbelief” when characters are obviously fantasy (think World of Warcraft), not trying to fool you into thinking its a real person. Characters that are very close to realistic, but not quite, sometimes seem to make people extra critical.

#26

To be immersive, a game has to provide a world with consistent, believable rules.

Pacman, Tetris and Match-Tree games fall in that category.

The moment you ask “why can’t I …” is probably the moment the immersion is broken.

#27

That’s doomguy.

#28

Gamespot has a pretty good review badge for this quality that isn’t quite so vague:

“Sucks you in”

#29

The whole point of this thread was how to achieve that.

I can’t see how their definition helps :persecutioncomplex:

#30

like a vacuum cleaner. keep it flowing.

#31

I believe it’s one of these:

If the player feels like they have enough control over their character to think it possible to BE the character. (like First-Person Free Roam games)
If the player feels a connection to one of the characters they are controlling. (like in Dwarf Fortress)

An example of the first one is Slender. You have control over where you go etc. which makes it scary. But as soon as you get to the fence and hit an invisible wall, it immediately loses the immersion. (but in this case, the immersion builds up again quite quickly)

The second one is a bit more complicated. It helps if you don’t have immediate control over the characters, because then they feel like real beings. AI is very important. Dwarf Fortress does this especially well.