Fleet Game

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#21

Yes, it would be nice to have some idea of what the various people are doing (Especially since after the entry screen there’s no explanation of who is what/where).

Before you work on things like rivers it would probably be better to work on the collisions, especially if the resulting rivers are less Mississippi/Nile and more like something else.

As for the pop-ups? Why not use layers instead? Freeze the game state, draw it, then make up your own pop-up style over the top of the game’s state. Sort of like what you do for ports, but taking up a smaller part of the screen.

#22

As a further idea/suggestion: A method for assigning fleet position/distribution. It seems somewhat random when you leave port (Beyond being able to select your first ship) and it can lead to some dangerous situations, such as the torpedos on a trailing ship hitting you suddenly (And painfully) because you didn’t make a turn and things like that.

And sorry, I like the concept enough that I’ll be bugging you for these things. Hah.

#23

I have not had any performance issues. I did have an issue where a red boat sailed through an island.

  1. Red boat was chasing me and I went into a port.
  2. After I went through the port screens and was back on the main screen the red ship came into the port to attack me
  3. I hooked out of the port and to the right while the red ship got stuck making trying to make the turn.
  4. I stopped so that the straight line path between me and the red ship passed through part of the island.
  5. The red ship jittered and bounced into the land and eventually started sailing through the land (at a slow pace) in a straight line towards me.
  6. After it passed through the shore on the other side and onto water, it resumed its normal speed.

I have not been able to reproduce the bug nor have I noticed any other cases where a ship has gone across land.

#24

It’s actually quite possible for a boat or a projectile to go on land. The easiest case to demonstrate is get a second ship, have it follow you. Then get close to an island and spin a circle. It will pass right through. That’s because I totally cheat the ships that follow you in formation. You can also drive yourself into an island by bumping into the island and turning.

I’m not doing a real rigid body simulation. The ships don’t have momentum and they don’t impart angular momentum on each other so it’s possible to turn into (and through) the thing you are colliding with.

I started thinking about this because of the guy who commented about it being annoying that your boat stops when you bump into things. This is really annoying when the two things are going in the same direction at similar speeds. They should brush against each other and not stop each other because they touch. But I don’t have any real simulation of momentum in the game so its hard to have the ships collide accurately. It’s possible, it is just something I have to think about.

#25

The next few times I played, the crashing issue wasn’t nearly so big of an issue. Of course, that was because I had a fleet and they just blasted through the enemies.

I did, however, run into a few more issue when I started to run missions.
Some weapons impact against your fleet while others do not: Guns and Torpedoes pose a great hazard to your own fleet, with your own ships typically dealing much damage to you than to your enemies (I know that I was shot to death by torpedoes on my own ships when I ran straight into an enemy). Mines though do not pose a danger if they come from your own ships, which makes them almost game breaking since you can lay out a ton prior to an encounter and make your opponents follow you through them.
Enemy ships (Red fleet) stopped reacting to me in general (Enough so that I could just sit there and bombard them without taking any damage in return). Other fleets would still react correctly and fight (Green would turn hostile when attacked, blue was always hostile with more spawning when I had cargo).
Selecting missions will sometimes cause the game to just crash (I’ll start running the game through the console so that I can see what happens).

#26

Thank you for playing this so much.

There is certainly a problem with friendly fire. Your AI controlled ships can accidentally hit you. They do a ray trace to see if they will hit someone on their team near by but this can be inaccurate because they don’t correctly anticipate their speed and your speed. I don’t think I can make them perfectly avoid friendly fire without making them perfect shots, which has its own problems. But it could be much better. When I have a ship with me I often use it as a freighter only (just cargo slots) or only with rear firing arc guns. That can work pretty well with the lead ship firing forward and the trailing ship firing backward.

Mines can be way too effective, particularly since the AI does nothing to avoid them. Having the AI avoid them sometimes is pretty easy to add. I also think I would like to add a ‘torpedo net’ component that would afford you protection against torpedoes and mines in the arc of the gun slot it takes (forward, backward, left or right). That could be pretty effective for groups of ships since you could have the leading ship have a torpedo net in the front, etc. There are many components I would like to add, including radar, radar guided guns, flight decks with airplanes, missiles, etc. Each will have different balance and AI issues. I was sort of hoping to show that I could do more than just guns with torpedoes and mines, but the balance is wonky for sure.

I have seen a bug where the red fleet just stops shooting at you. I am not sure what causes this-- it could be that somehow their AI is fixed on a dead enemy or something else. You have to play a while to get that problem and you have my eternal gratitude for playing that much. If you see this problem, or crash when you launch a mission, it is really helpful to know the mission you were launching when you crashed, and if you can remember, which missions you have done. I am trying to track down the problems but that is a huge clue.

Again, thank you so much for trying this. It is so helpful to get feedback.

#27

I’ll end up playing some more tomorrow (I need to work on some AI stuff myself, hah).

Typically, the red fleet not responding seems to happen not only when you’ve played for a while, but after you’ve started missions that cause them to spawn (Typically the Merchanter Fleet mission, at least in my experience). However, I did notice that the stationary protectors during the ‘Take Red Port’ mission do still target and attack. Further, when I did that one as well, there was a single ship that was slowly rotating in place, dropping mines as soon as it could.

The crashes tend to happen only the first time I attempt the mission (Like say if I’ve done it once already and restart, it’s never crashed on a restart.)

With the AI shooting you, I think that the biggest issue there is two fold (And neither is really easy to fix):
Bullets travel relatively slow, at least compared to the speed of the ships themselves. A cannon shoots at upwards of 100m/s while a ship travels at around 13m/s (This is a guestimate based on knowledge and calculations. A lot depends on what type of ship yours are supposed to be). While it was somewhat easy to miss at ranges, when you were close, it was likely that your broad side would hit without the other side being able to avoid simply due to speed. I know that fast projectiles just aren’t as aesthetically pleasing/fun to play against though (I know I hate it games when I’m hit by things I have no chance to avoid.)
The above is compounded by the ‘cheat’ used for the fleets. However, without rewriting all of that, I can’t see that being fixed so easily.

Most of my suggestions on how to change the weapons would make them more difficult to play with (Or at least make fighting a bit more difficult). Somethings like making the rotational turrets fire in an arc instead of a straight line (By that, I mean that the bullets should arch up towards the viewer then back down, with only the last few ticks of the bullets being dangerous), which is targeted using the mouse. Some control on the facing of stationary turrets (Unless I missed that already being there) would probably be easier to implement and make those weapons more useful for fleet ships.

#28

The bullets are very slow compared to the ships (at least vs. reality) so that your ship can sometimes ‘dodge’ a bullet. I think that is fun, but it makes AI predicting if a bullet will hit very difficult since you have time to change course while the bullet is flying. Fixed guns have faster shots then turrets.

I was thinking about having following ships have their guns just be programmed to fire where you fire only. Then they would just be an extension of your ship and always do what you would expect. That would be the simplest I think. That’s the way the following ships drive. Originally I had them use AI to follow (like the way the escorts stay with freighters) but the AI could never keep up because humans are just better drivers. So I just stick them behind you by physics fiat. I could have them shoot wherever you shoot too.

It isn’t hard to make the AI ships more effective, I actually tuned them down to make the game more accessible. My son ( eight ) said it was too hard. The trick is that it starts easy but I don’t bring the AI up much and probably should.

#29

Yay, for even more beta testing/bugs, because it’s a fun game.

In several of the game I’ve played (Perhaps all), near the middle of the map there is an ‘invisible’ mine layer, which just continuously drops mines into a single place. I say invisible, but it’s not even really there. Can’t shoot, can’t do anything to the spot. Further, on the map in/around that area are several objects/things (I don’t know what) that appear there that are not showing up in the actual game.

Ah, I think that a lot of ships don’t keep up because many of them are just slower than the player’s ship. I know I abuse that by loading down my other ships with guns and stuff, then my “flag” ship gets some mines and an extra engine to boost its speed. Then I get to drag all of these ‘900/400’ weight ships around at a 28 speed.

As for how you can handle the fleet mechanics? My thought would be to allow the player to make a sort of “conglomeration” of ships, then allow them to decide which guns are allowed to fire within the conglomeration. So, you’d get to position the ships in your fleet in relation to your flag ship (So that you can actually use them to protect other ships), then select which guns would still be allowed to fire (Like indicate that the ones on this side are not allowed to fire. To make this less game breaking, something like lowering the speed of all other ships to the smallest in the formation would work (As well making the turn algorithm based on the max speeds of edge ships or something) and once a ship is damage past a certain point it goes into another AI that peals away and either tries to get back to a safe port or something.

Ah, I just had a crash while destroying an enemy ship. The results of the print out weren’t too useful, hah.


Find Start Point Failed
Find Start Point Failed
Find Start Point Failed
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException
        at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method)
        at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(Unknown Source)
        at sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(Unknown Source)
        at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Unknown Source)
        at org.eclipse.jdt.internal.jarinjarloader.JarRsrcLoader.main(Unknown So
urce)
Caused by: java.lang.NullPointerException
        at W.b(Unknown Source)
        at k.a(Unknown Source)
        at e.b(Unknown Source)
        at FourExample.a(Unknown Source)
        at FourExample.main(Unknown Source)
        ... 5 more

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#30

Please use the code tag, not spoiler.

#31

I used it thinking it was like others I’ve seen (Where it makes a collapse section). I forgot that this one just does the ‘Highlight to see’ thing. @.@