Convince me to ditch Eclipse. Or not.

Give Netbeans 6.5 with the eclipse KeyMap another try. But TBH, don’t expect too much performance wise. I don’t use Eclipse very often, but the times I did I found both IDEs on par regarding (bad) performance :-\ But I always found Netbeans to be “fast enough” on my core 2 duo :wink: There are some things that are annoying from time to time (task/project/classpath scanning), but overall Netbeans gives a good and productive user experience.

http://wiki.netbeans.org/Scala

I use Idea at work and long time was a die hard fan. But with the latest versions it tends to get the same bloat like any IDE and Netbeans is definately better when it comes to multithreading. In Idea I often find myself gaping at some progress bar or just at a frozen editor window.

I found that Eclipse on Mac OS was slow as hell, inexplicably. I even attempted for a while to use Mac OS as my development platform but the sheer sluggishness of Eclipse sent me running back to Windows.

Cas :slight_smile:

just want to add that it is still possible to use two IDEs on the same project. E.g NetBeans 6.5 has the cool feature to keep the classpath in synch with eclipse projects (but its a one way road it only updates eclipse -> netbeans). I use it right now at work because of some distinct features and plugin licenses.

Just use the IDE which fits best to your next task.

NetBeans detects changes in files automatically but you will have to press F5 to get your eclipse project refreshed (this is the favourite key of eclipse users anyway :P).

I would recomment everyone in “enterprise” projects to give NB a try, it has really convincing out of the box features. NB supports most servers (glassfish, jboss, tomcat…) databases and comes with out of the box svn, cvs and mercurial support.

2 cores recomented

Interesting. I’ve been using on Mac OS all this time and it has been fine. As I mentioned before performance could be a bit slow on my older computer that was more due to Eclipse needing 300mb of RAM and me having only 1gb distributed across 7 or 8 high-end programs like Safari, iTunes, Photoshop, and Eclipse all at once.

It’s definitely possible that it’s an OS thing, I’ve been booted to OS X for so long that I can’t even remember if I have Eclipse installed yet on my XP partition. I have noticed that Java programs have some dreadful new UI lags under Leopard (showing a ‘File’ menu in response to a click should never take 15 seconds, shame on you for not fixing this already, Apple!), so maybe that’s causing a lot more of this than I’m realizing.

I’ll see if I have similar problems in other IDEs, if that’s the case perhaps I’ll eventually have to retreat to Windows or Linux again until (unless?) some of this stuff is fixed.

Re: Netbeans comments, it sounds like Netbeans has come quite a long way since I last tried it. I’ll definitely give it a fair look again, esp. if it interoperates with Eclipse projects without too much fuss and has good Scala/Maven support.

Eclipse has two major svn plugins: Subversive and Subclipse. Although subversive is a bit more “official” (since it’s actually a part of eclipse.org) I found it to be unreliable and generally a pain to use (tellingly despite being an eclipse.org plugin it’s not included by default in any of the eclipse IDE bundles).

Subclipse is IMHO much better and more reliable. If you were using subversive it’s well worth checking it out as an alternative.

… and if you were already using Subclipse? :wink:

In my experience Eclipse’s built in CVS support is soooo much more stable than SVN through either subclipse or subversive - which is a real shame, cos’ SVN should in theory be much better… maybe once it reaches the same age as CVS, it will be! (just in time for it to be obsoleted by something with an even shinnier feature set)

[quote](cough anything related to Swing cough)
[/quote]
Eclipse doesn’t use SWING, it uses SWT. Maybe its SWT having problems on mac?

When people talk about slow “AutoComplete”, I hope you know about the delay settings? If not, look under Window -> Preferences -> Java -> Editor -> Content Assist :slight_smile:

As far as performance is concerned, I have found Eclipse to be better then NetBeans.
Especially the autocompletion under NetBeans took for freaking ever.

I heard that a couple of times and it surprises me everytime I do. What system are you using and which Netbeans version did you try? I never found codecompletion to be slow with enough RAM and anything greater NB 6.0.

(snip)
Well, this problem is specific to Swing on the Mac, so it’s not relevant to Eclipse, but it shows up in other programs “in the wild,” especially if they automatically have sub-menus that show your projects in a directory or something like that (so the number of items is unbounded).

Here’s a very basic example, which, while totally unrealistic, runs fine (a second or two delay in response) using Java 1.4.2 on OS X, but practically grinds to a halt when you click the File menu on 1.5 or above (again, OS X only):


import javax.swing.JFrame;
import javax.swing.JMenu;
import javax.swing.JMenuBar;
import javax.swing.JMenuItem;

public class SwingMenuSlowdown {
	private static final int largeNumberOfMenuItems = 1000;
	
	public static void main(String[] args) {
		System.setProperty("apple.laf.useScreenMenuBar", "true");
		JFrame frame = new JFrame();
		frame.setTitle("On OS X this menu is really slow in Java 1.5+, but works fine in 1.4");
		frame.setSize(640,480);
		frame.setDefaultCloseOperation(JFrame.EXIT_ON_CLOSE);
		JMenuBar myMenuBar = new JMenuBar();
		JMenu myFile = new JMenu("File");
		JMenu mySub = new JMenu("A lotta stuff");
		for (int i=0; i<largeNumberOfMenuItems; ++i) {
			mySub.add(new JMenuItem("MyStuff "+i));
		}
		myFile.add(mySub);
		myMenuBar.add(myFile);
		frame.setJMenuBar(myMenuBar);
		frame.setVisible(true);
	}
}

1000 items is unrealistic, but even in real apps the problem shows up to varying degrees. I don’t know of any workarounds at the moment if you’re using Swing…you can set the 'useScreenMenuBar" to false and that “fixes” it (hence the problem is something to do with the way Apple binds to the screen menu in Swing - AWT is also fine), but that’s very against Mac UI standards, so…

Then again, I don’t do much Swing, so there might be something else going on here, too.

Ubuntu 7.x, version of NB unsure, maybe 5.something.
1.5 gb ram

There’s an option in Subclipse to change the “SVN Interface”. IIRC there’s JavaHL and PureJava, one of which talks to the regular svn binaries via jni and the other is a reimplementation of the svn client in java. I find that the default (pure java) was more problematic than the jni one. YMMV.

  1. had really slow autocompletion thats true. The whole editor API has been rewritten in v 6.0.

Try with JOGL… on my old machine, Eclipse was liable to hang for a number of minutes if I ever (often accidentally) let it try to complete a GL method or constant name without having already typed most of it… there must be thousands. The impact that these things actually have on performance seems very variable, though. I tried just now and it came up with the unfiltered list of GL methods within less than a couple of seconds (filtering to gl.glTex* still hung for over 20 seconds, though). I find it important, working with JOGL, to set it so I ONLY have completion happen when I press Ctrl + space. Eclipse certainly can be unresponsive at times - and is rarely what I’d call snappy - but I do like it a lot. I think it’s improved quite a bit over the years.

My new favourite Eclipse shortcut: Ctrl + 3. This brings up a search box, which as you type will search the names of files you have open in tabs, project properties, application preferences, menus and other useful things. Results are ordered so that previous choices are near the top. This is, for me, an incredibly efficient way of getting around the application and performing certain actions without needing to use the mouse or remember lots of obscure stuff. I really hope that more people will recognise what a good idea this type of thing is - I seem to remember Quicksilver in OSX has similarish sorts of capabilities, come to think of it. I may just have convinced myself that Apple could be my friend*.

Also, if they haven’t already, I’d recommend any Eclipse user to experiment with combinations of modifiers and cursor keys in the text editor. [Alt + left / right] go forwards and backwards to the last bits of code you modified (switching to different tabs if necessary). [Alt + shift + up / down] select larger or smaller blocks of code around the caret in sensible logical increments, etc etc. Well, these things float my boat, anyway. I daresay there are lots of nice touches in other systems, too.

Netbeans seems fairly decent, I’ve not used it much… occasionally use the UML tools; never seemed to find anything useful for Eclipse - probably hiding in plain sight somewhere… recommendations appreciated. GUI design in Netbeans seems to have something going for it.

  • tune in next time for anti-Jobs vitriol - I didn’t have much fun with macs as an undergrad…

for your small projects, give a try to jcreator :slight_smile:

NetBeans 6.5 autocompletion popup appears for gl.* in less than 2 seconds on my core duo 1.6GH notebook.

NetBeans has something similar its called quicksearch (strg+i) and is the textfield on the top right corner. It searches through IDE Actions, Options, Types in classpath of opened projects and Help. If you have installed the NB OpenGL Pack it will also display online resources like the OpenGL sdk and vendor specific extension documentation additional to the default sources (edit: screenshot).

offtopic:
I just tried --laf Nimbus the first time with u10, looks good but the scrollbars don’t convince me… :-\

I’ve had very little trouble with Eclipse on my Mac OS X, and it seems to start up faster than on XP (although that’s just a vague impression). Code completion generally works pretty quickly (unless doing something in swing, or with jogl, but even then it’s under 20 sec). I’ve been using the enterprise edition, so I have no idea if that affects anything.

Lately, there have been times where opening files seems to hang for way too long, but it happens about 1 in 1000 and tends to be when I’ve had my computer on for too many days in a row.

You could try increasing the different memory options for the jvm that Eclipse uses when starting up, this may help boost performance.

Depending on what you need, I find using Netbeans 6.x in Ubuntu linux very satisfying. It is fairly simple to use, on my machine it seems faster than eclipse, and you won’t find youself bundling it up with tempting plugins as much as eclipse.
However, the lack of plugins for netbeans might just be your problem

But if you just need a glorified texteditor with some project control and smaller IDE’s arent good enough, Netbeans would be the thing for you.

Oh and the gui builder in netbeans can take away a couple of hours if you wanna have fun with easy gui programming.

Hope this helps :slight_smile: