Another language feature I'd like

[Mr_Light]

http://projectlombok.org/ looks like it’s kinda like what we talked about here

Try to avoid hearing the horrible Dutch accent

[princec]

I like the Dutch accent!
I must say it looks like quite a nifty little timesaver.

Cas

[kaffiene]

@cylab

That simply isn’t true. It’s the browsers DOM implementations that are problematic. JavaScript as a pure language is robust and versatile. With Firebug or the JavaScript-Debugger from Netbeans you get reasonable debugging capabilities as well.

That simply is true. I earn a living programming Javascript, and I’m pretty familiar with the tools out there. FF and IE both have good debuggers available, but that is not the whole story. Even with good debuggers, the runtime environments will end up reporting errors in the wrong places which makes finding bugs a really pain in the ass.

[kaffiene]

@Spasi

This would be godly indeed. It should also be relatively easy to compile a VM for Google’s Native Client. However…
I will repeat that it isn’t the mess people think it is. Just because 90% of the internet has been doing it wrong, it doesn’t mean there isn’t a clean, powerful and even beautiful way to write web pages. And please don’t say Swing isn’t a mess. JavaFX would be nice with native support from the browser, but it remains to be seen if it will have a chance against competing technologies, starting with the HTML5/CSS3/Javascript package.

Do you do web apps professionally? Because I do, and I completely endorse the statement that the web as it stands is a complete and utter mess. Writing HTML containing server side scripts to write data out for client side scripts which output HTML to be interpreted by the browser is ugly beyond belief.

HTML is fine for a static web, but all the dynamic content that people want to host on the web just does not fit into the current paradigms. Dynamic stuff should be handled in an environment which is designed for dealing with that dynamism - and that ain’t HTML. Not by a long shot.

[Spasi]

[quote=“kaffiene,post:124,topic:33789”]
Yes, for the past 5 years. As I said I’m no expert, we have other people doing the fancy client stuff, I mostly do server-side/database development. But I do work on the client from time to time, it’s too easy tbh after the initial framework is in place. Anyway, unfortunately yes, I’ve been doing ajax-powered rich client web apps for too long.

[quote=“kaffiene,post:124,topic:33789”]
That’s because most of the current paradigms are utter crap and people have been writing web pages the wrong way for too long. Most web developers don’t even have a clue on how to separate data/logic from presentation. There are so many options nowadays for where to put your data and how to do your logic, it’s embarrassing how many people screw this up.

[quote=“kaffiene,post:124,topic:33789”]
I think I’ve provided enough interesting links that contain examples showing how dynamic and rich HTML can get. (again, I don’t like talking about “HTML” the markup language, it’s the whole browser package that counts)