Well, when it’s fox news telling you about government conspiracies, rest assured it must be much worse! ;D
Yes, some reports speculate some things, other reports speculate other things. I’ve seen the scale posted in everything from exabytes on wikipedia to yodabytes on techcrunch. In the absence of hard facts, it can be pretty much anything you want it to be. I could speculate that they’re preparing to bring the worlds largest MineCraft server online. :o The funny thing about facts (something us skeptical people love) is that they don’t take any imagination. There is no blank to fill in; it is the filled in blank.
Now coming back towards the world of reality. If you’re running a data center and planning for long term retention, a large chunk of your capacity is going to be used for redundancy. Also consider that you’re going to have to plan for future growth and the fact that a lot of IP traffic is compressed and you’ll need some room for decompression for examination. That “enormous” data space is starting to feel a bit cramped already even before you add in the non IP data that is supposedly being captured as well (pretty much anything with an OTA type broadcast). If we go with the notion that it’s 5 zetabytes of potential storage space, and consider that we’re projected to have around a 140% growth in IP traffic alone in a 1 year period (yes I know I’m fudging the estimate a bit by projecting the 1 zb period to occur at the end of 2015 / beginning of 2016, but it’s easier math), either the new data center isn’t for total data awareness / retention, or someone is really bad at planning for short term, much less long term capacity planning. Speaking of which, they’re already
On a lighter note, the analogy used by “King” made me laugh out loud. I think that’s the first time I’ve seen storage capacity compared to stacked iPhone 5s. I’m still trying to figure out if he’s literally talking about surface area or if he’s referring to the sum of the amount of ram in each device. Either way, I would expect that an expert would understand that when you’re trying to quantify it in a unit that results in another number that’s "difficult, if not impossible to conceive.” :
Horrible analogy, most people will think of the (equivalent of) hard disk capacity, which obviously varies from iPhone to iPhone. Back to the original topic, if the gov’t has the means to get the data, it will get it, and it will use it, I think there’s no doubt about that. I don’t find it hard to believe that someone from the NSA would spy on someone else because of something trivial - I mean, you hear scandals in the news all the time.
This discussion is powerful, because it has a lot to do with the future of computing.
However, the Internet is a public entity. Thinking that people, even our own respective governments, will not look at the data if you display certain patterns is completely and utterly naive. Our information is always at risk when we decide to put it on the Internet, and packets can be intercepted by anyone. As programmers, we know there is no guaranteed way to make sure data can’t be manipulated, or reverse engineered over time.
As for what we can do about it. Nothing really. It is important for every nation to at least keep the illusion that they are tracking data. It turns the internet into leverage, not allowing anyone to gain full control. As surfers, we just need to be aware that we might be watched, and overall to have some integrity of what you post and do digitally.
The mistake that many people make is believing that giving personal information on the internet is any better than writing your personal information in a public restroom stall. Even if you write your information in a secured bank’s restroom (Amazon, Google, Yahoo, etc.), there is always that one janitor that has the keys. Just watch what you post and stay vigilant, (it goes for all your other digital transactions too).
What ya’ll are missing is that all governments are just puppets to international mega-corps!!! They’re job is to maximize production and consumption!!! What we REALLY need to worry about is our discount and credit cards…because they KNOW EVERYTHING about our consumption. One day there tacked aggreement will fall threw and the COPERATE WARS WILL BEGIN!!! When that happens expect visits from thugs from [spoiler] [/spoiler] or [spoiler] [/spoiler] to make you pay for not buing the write brands!!!
INTERNAL NOTATION: Not for distribution. Edited on 20130612 by 1337077
The U.S. government has lost its way, badly. I do wonder where all those hillbilly militias are, those who oppose government control and justify their gun ownership as a failsafe to fight a totalitarian government. Well… they’re kinda worthless right now aren’t they?
Just look at the control the evil empire has over companies like the creditcard companies, who not only serve the U.S. but the international world as well. The U.S. government blacklisted Wikileaks and forced the creditcard companies to shut down any influx of donations to Wikileaks via their service FROM ANY SOURCE IN THE WORLD. It was illegal for the creditcard companies to block Wikileaks donations, and an Icelandic court found the creditcard companies in breach of contract. Thing is, breaching the contract wasn’t considered an issue by the powers to be. Rule of law has gone out of the window and has been replaced by totalitarianism and rule by decree.
When did Americans start to become scared of freedom?
It not just the US that’s suffering from some weird identity crisis. It seems to be pretty much all of the world. If I were to attempt to get US citizens to “do something” about their freedoms I’d focus on the Rico act and large parts of the Patriot Acts. This current topic is pretty uninteresting to me…along the lines of “what’s that stain on whatsername’s dress?” My only questions would be: what abuses has it led to? legal vs. illegal? and what are the checks-and-balances? BTW: I find the STASI reference borderline repugnant because it’s a too recent history and there are many people that lived thorough that regime. I was a young adult when the wall came-a-tumbling down. On legal vs. illegal, it seems logical to me that any data purposely sent through the net has absolutely zero expectation of privacy. Likewise for cell communication. In both cases you’re knowingly throwing information into the void for anyone to grab…you’re yelling into a public phone with a circle of a million people standing around you. Too bad for you if someone is listening. However a phone conversation made from a non-public fixed line does have reasonable expectation of privacy and inspecting that data should require a warrant. Yes there are a lot of gray areas in my last statements, but I don’t feel like writing a novel.
I see this as a business opportunity for competitors of US companies
to host their servers outside the US juristical access.
And implementing a strict secure communication from client to server (https for starters)
At one time there will be economic pressure to reduce (or make people belive so) the
sniffing on their private communications.
The main effect of observing and recording peoples behavior lies less in aquiering intelligence data to find bad terrorists
(or drug trading, or tax fraud, or pirating software, or mobbing schoolmates, or throwing away beer cans on the highway, or critizising the current govenment)
But more into making people change their behavior in their daily lives. (a broad feeling of intimmidation)
Beeing more careful and communicating less critical.
I don’t think it’s hard for anybody to believe that, and that the NSA spies is certainly not in question. The scale and methods of surveillance are what’s being questioned.
And just when the hyperbole seemed to have died down. You’re making yourself out to be ignorant if you think that a)only “hillbilly militias” carry guns or see value in the U.S. second amendment, b)that the only tyranny that exists comes from the federal level, and c)that tyranny is the only thing that a gun is useful for protection from. That being said, the irony in all of it is, judging by your rants and general level of conspiratorial paranoia, you would probably feel right at home among a group of them or any of the other survivalist type groups that you seem to have a low opinion of.
And you do realize that credit card companies, even ones based in “the evil empire” are not controlled by the U.S. government anymore than they are the Icelandic government or others. Like other business entities, they are subject to the laws and regulations of the countries they are doing business in, otherwise, the Icelandic court ruling would have no way of being enforced.
Fun fact: The backlash against wikileaks wasn’t a U.S. only thing. A Swiss bank also froze Julian’s funds, and Moneybookers (a U.K. firm) also cut ties with them. While there were certainly those in the U.S. government who wanted to add wkileaks to a financial blacklist, ultimately it was decided that there were not legal grounds to do so. I’ll aslo point out that it was another U.S. based company, XIPWIRE, who provided a means for individuals to donate to wikileaks after Visa and Mastercard had stopped doing transactions with them.
As a side note, can you please stop with the misuse, mischaracterization, and mislabeling of history to try and suit your agenda? It muddies the conversation, can be confusing, and doesn’t make you look any smarter to people with actual knowledge of historical scale and factual context. To wit, “the evil empire” is a well understood reference to The Soviet Union made by Ronald Reagan during the cold war. If you want to slander an entire nation, then you could use a phrase that is actually identified with it like say “The Great Satan”; a favorite of Iranian clerics, or hell, be creative and come up with your own (I’m the one who lacks imagination, remember)?
I think it was somewhere around the time Iceland quit teaching actual history in schools. :point:
Another excellent story, but considering the fact that Nacchio did actually sell his stock off while the price was inflated and before knowledge of the government contracts were made public reaping a windfall. His excuse? He wasn’t in a right state of mind at the time. The persecution claim doesn’t hold up that well in light of the fact that Google had stated that they were approached by the NSA with similar requests in the past and had turned them down.
It would seem that if you’re a CEO, do nothing illegal, but paid a lot, you should be locked up and have the key thrown away, but if you’re a CEO who “sticks it to the man” in people’s eyes, then goes on to do insider trading and self enrichment, any criminal charges or penalties you face for said activities is obviously an Orwellian government exacting its revenge.
[quote=“CodeHead,post:50,topic:42428”]
I know this is the Miscellaneous board, and anything goes, but personal attacks and insinuations like these not only hurt your point, they also hurt your credibility.
[quote=“CodeHead,post:50,topic:42428”]
Much like you, I could join this argument, not taking the above statement as lightly as was intended, saying something along the lines of how you clearly ‘missed the point’ and that the statements of an individual from a specific country, do not necessarily reflect that nations educational system.
This is slowly turning into a thread where people argue, for argument’s sake. Where you see the typical behavior of only responding to eachother’s weakest arguments, as they are easiest to attack. It ends in a situation where tensions rise, yet both parties feel strengthened in their point of view.
If you two can’t get along, that’s no problem, but don’t make it such a public affair. Exchange email addresses or something. I’m fairly sure though, that without both parties feeling reinforced by the public eye, it’ll fizzle out surprisingly fast. JGO is not the place for this bickering.
End argument: ignorance is bliss. ;D
Agreed, but in all fairness, while I could have perhaps used a better term than “conspiratorial paranoia”, it wasn’t really meant as a person attack. My point was that the same groups he’s mocking are in general, deeply suspicious of government, have deeply held opinions on privacy and independence (especially the survivalists), have a less than “stellar” view of big business and the financial system, and are fiercely patriotic. While I may not agree with all the views, I do think they do hold valid points at times, and do not see them as a bad thing (thus my defense of them in my second sentence). My point is that his derision was aimed towards a group who actually holds a lot of agreement with him. If it came off as a “you’re an idiot and suxors” type comment, I sincerely apologize.
That was actually my form of “Reductio ad absurdum” in response to his comment about Americans fearing freedom. I find both statements to be absurd and figured the absurdity would be pretty evident. To be honest, I have no real bias one way or the other when it comes to Iceland in general, and the Icelandic educational system specifically. If I were forced to give a knee jerk response at gunpoint, I would actually probably say it’s better than what we have in the U.S. That’s just going by American stereotypes of Europe in general though, which, like any other type of stereotype, I have zero actual faith in. And yes I am aware that a sampling of one is no representation of an entire populace. [self deprecation]Good thing too, otherwise all Americans, or at least the ones from Ohio, would be long winded assholes. :D[/self deprecation]
I hold no hard feelings against apel. I may debate hard, but in the grand scheme of things, I keep the arguments in the thread that they’re related to, and don’t think that just because I disagree with someone on one subject, that I’ll disagree with them on all subjects or that there’s a need to be confrontational in other dealings because of it.
I’ll make this my last post on this thread. I agree with you Riven, at a certain point it is just time spent inappropriately bickering (which is probably much better spent on development, answering questions in the other threads, hanging out with family, or damn well about anything else).
@Apel - My apologies if I came off as harsh. Overall, we may not agree in this instance, but I honestly believe you’re a good guy on the whole. I say this due to being a lurker on here for quite a while now and reading some of your posts in the past. I hold no hard feelings, or ill will towards you, and hope the same is true on your end.
Cheers! 8)
@CodeHead
I love you too!!
Seriously, I never considered this more than a debate, arguing, opinion conflict, which I’ve never had a problem with.
At work this sort of argument conflict is encouraged, and we have much harsher debates which some outsiders might perceive as we’re going to kill each other. But fear not, we’re all best buds!
;D
I’m all for intense debates, but insinuations, insults and constantly implying that the other guy is stupid for not realizing something, has no part in a proper public debate.
It is obvious that it started as an exchange of information, turning into an exchange of ignorance, like ‘the evil empire’ response - that was just painful to watch, not contributing to the discussion in any way.